Who is in and who is out?

[Rhossydd]

Had it been reversed, I presume you would have thought it decisive.

Actually I wouldn't. It would show that a lot of people needed to know more about the issues.

The vast (and I mean VAST) majority of them are not nasty racists, but see a problem that urgently needs sorting out, namely our EU membership.

I think an awfully large number have been carefully and subtly manipulated into believing there are much bigger 'problems' than exist in reality. In the next few months and years very many will be bitterly disappointed to discover how little changes in their lives for the better.

 

[stuartpaul]

And now the most senior Foreign Ministers in the EU have just issued a collective statement,

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Infos ... RSION.html

Looks much like an olive branch to me. They say they're very sorry that they've upset the electorate, have learnt their lesson, and invite the UK government to sit down and see if something can't be worked out...which of course it can, especially as paymaster Merkel is standing in the wings telling them all to find a way, anyway, but just fix it!

Sure, there'll be all sorts of bluff and bluster served up for the Greeks and the Catalonians, but in the smoke filled rooms where the real business takes place it's looking increasingly likely that our future is to remain in the Europe village, just in a slightly more detached property set back a discrete distance from the High Street.

Interestingly Custard I didn't read it as an olive branch. I think they're quite keen for us to get on with it so they can get over us as soon as possible! I wonder if they can 'force' us to trigger Article 50 before we want to?

It's been alluded to already but when people realise that in order to continue to trade we'll still have to comply with every aspect of EU law only this time there won't be any get out clauses and we'll have absolutely zero influence putting laws together.

That'll be an out/in then as opposed to an out/out!

 

[Inoffthered]

Had it been reversed, I presume you would have thought it decisive.

Actually I wouldn't. It would show that a lot of people needed to know more about the issues.

The vast (and I mean VAST) majority of them are not nasty racists, but see a problem that urgently needs sorting out, namely our EU membership.

I think an awfully large number have been carefully and subtly manipulated into believing there are much bigger 'problems' than exist in reality. In the next few months and years very many will be bitterly disappointed to discover how little changes in their lives for the better.

I think an awfully large number of Remainiacs have been carefully and subtly manipulated into believing that the EU is the answer to all of our problems and are now being manipulated by a liberal left media that struggles to accept the majority result at an election.

 

[Rhossydd]

a liberal left media

I'm impressed you think the Guardian has that much influence, it only reaches about a million.

 

[beech1948]

I believe people are making this too complicated and just because they having voted and lost or won don't like it.

The easy way out but the hardest to live with is for Parliament to simply repeal the act which enshrined Masstrict (sp) into Uk law. That would mean that that Treaty and all subsequent treaties were no longer valid and we could leave immediately. Would be hard for the government to swallow and tough on the EU as well but doable.

You guys who are bitching about Leaveing should stay quiet and deal with it. Complaining and wingeing will not help us all. There was a referendum, it made a decision for the UK and we must live with it.

Calls for a second referendum are ludicrous and unrealistic. Imagine the Uk going back to Brussels and saying " Sorry but we got the right answer now so let us back in". A bad joke to be punished by a sneering lack of belief from the EU and being told to GO AWAY. Time for you all to be realistic. A second referendum would be disavowed by the losers just as strongly as today and nothing would be accepted as the UK was dragged kicking and screaming into the courts with mass riots in the major cities.

Londependence also a joke. Maybe the capital but not the voice of the UK. London centric people put us into this position.

What makes me laugh are the twits who said "I voted OUT but wasn't sure I meant it". Those who voted IN but were'nt sure they meant it as well. What utter useless juvenile stupid turnips these people are. Interesting they were mostly 30 ish.

My business has 37 employees with 17 under 25. Of these 11 voted OUT and 5 voted IN and one spoiled his vote out of disgust with the attitude of polititions. 12 are 30 to 45 and these were split 50/50 for IN and OUT. The 8 over 45 voted 6 OUT and 2 IN. The division caused within my team during the run up to the referendum has been unpleasant and arguementative. Productivity has been hit by a -19% drop.

I will not go through another referendum and will fight that tooth and nail to prevent it and you manipulated REMAINDERS getting one.

Time to get on with it.

Curious as well that the EU wants us to Hurry Up after being so slow and desperately treacle like for years.

 

[Jacob]

Had it been reversed, I presume you would have thought it decisive.

Actually I wouldn't. It would show that a lot of people needed to know more about the issues.

The vast (and I mean VAST) majority of them are not nasty racists, but see a problem that urgently needs sorting out, namely our EU membership.

I think an awfully large number have been carefully and subtly manipulated into believing there are much bigger 'problems' than exist in reality. In the next few months and years very many will be bitterly disappointed to discover how little changes in their lives for the better.

I think an awfully large number of Remainiacs have been carefully and subtly manipulated into believing that the EU is the answer to all of our problems and are now being manipulated by a liberal left media that struggles to accept the majority result at an election.

I think an awfully large number of Brexiters have been crudely and un-subtly manipulated into believing that immigration* is the cause of all their problems and are now being manipulated by a right-wing media owned and controlled by non-dom mega-rich tax dodgers concerned only about having power, getting rich and keeping taxation down.

Brexit will bring them nothing. Turkeys voting for christmas.

*Or you could add: excessive regulation, health and safety, benefit scroungers, single mothers etc. We all know the list inside out!

 

[Rhossydd]

Curious as well that the EU wants us to Hurry Up after being so slow and desperately treacle like for years.

Nothing curious about, they want some sort of stability as fast as possible as our decision is hurting their currency too.

But it WILL take years to get out. There's vast amounts of legislation and treaties to wade through and repeal or replace and negotiations with other countries to handle. One certainty in this is that rushed legislation is bad legislation.
Even the simple practicalities of who actually is employed to do it will take long enough.
It will cost the country a fortune and we'll be untangling the mess for a decade or more.

 

[paulm]

Nigel Farrage didn't think a 52-48 would be decisive enough.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ni ... um-7985017

Yeah, but I'm not going to take ideas of what is right or wrong from that piece of .......
When you play a game you have to decide on the rules at the outset, this "game" will have severe consequences and perhaps the referendum should have never been called, but it was and common sense, tolerance and decency lost. The only course of action now is to try and mitigate the harm this will cause to the economy and to the hard working tax paying immigrants who have made their home in this country, cleaning our hospital floors while lazy Brits collect their dole and complain about immigrants with their sickening sense of entitlement (that's what it's like on my estate anyway, there are quite a few Eastern Europeans and all of them get up and go to work like me, the Brits, not so much).

No it didn't, to dismiss more than half of the voters in that way just because they don't happen to fit your preconceived ideas and preferences is quite frankly puerile and insulting, and far away from the tolerance that you mention, although perhaps you don't see the irony.

 

[beech1948]

Curious as well that the EU wants us to Hurry Up after being so slow and desperately treacle like for years.

Nothing curious about, they want some sort of stability as fast as possible as our decision is hurting their currency too.

But it WILL take years to get out. There's vast amounts of legislation and treaties to wade through and repeal or replace and negotiations with other countries to handle. One certainty in this is that rushed legislation is bad legislation.
Even the simple practicalities of who actually is employed to do it will take long enough.
It will cost the country a fortune and we'll be untangling the mess for a decade or more.

No as I said repeal the Masstrict treaty and all other ttreaties and agreements become inoperable. You are making it too complicated.

The more difficult issue that the EU is concerned about is to saddle us with EU laws and conditions even though we are out as well as making us pay a tax on membership. Remember they have a £12Bn void to fill.

 

[paulm]

The sooner a50 is implemented the sooner we can get out, then we can start rebuilding, there's no reason to drag it out any longer than necessarry,

Yes there is

As a committed Remainiac, Cameron can't possibly start and execute the process of leaving with any credibility and appetite for a good result. He would completely, not necessarily purposefully I would hope, queer the pitch for the new team and tie their hands or go for different priorities than they would prefer.

Far better and more realistic for informal discussions and negotiations to take place in the background until the new team are in place and can execute on their priorities without hindrance and more baggage from the past than necessary.

 

[rafezetter]

The only good news is that this referendum is not legally binding and Parliament could vote to ignore it, if they have the guts.

I can't see that happening despite only 37% of the electorate being in favour.

Here's a bit of information my father sent me - a man far more in tune with such matters than myself; being in high level finance (neither banker or stocks, but linked to both) what the UK economy and global markets have been doing has been his stock in trade for close to 50 years. Being 70, he voted both times (in the first, out the second) and has seen first hand what has happened. However his email to me was about the margins:

I think the margin in the EU Referendum was a lot bigger than people realise.



Total votes cast in the referendum were 17,410,742 for Leave, with 16,141,241 for Remain; a winning margin of 1,269,501, or just over 1 and a quarter million people.



51.9% voted to Leave; 48.1% voted to Remain.



However, we are told the turnout was 72.2% of the total electorate (which is very high by UK standards), so altogether about 46,470,890 were entitled to vote.



Of the total possible Electorate:

· 37.5 % voted to Leave;

· 34.7% voted to Remain;

· 27.8% didn’t vote at all, not by post and not in person, so they were either "Don’t Know enough" or "Don’t Care enough" to make a decision.



Adding the Leave votes to the No Shows makes a total of 72.2% of possible UK voters. So we can safely say that almost three quarters of the UK voting population are either positively in favour of leaving the EU or were happy to leave that choice to others.


Not such a narrow margin after all !!

As they say, history is made by the people who show up – but sometimes the people who don’t show up make a difference too !

I am of course expecting the vocal ones in the remain camp to say their side could just as well claim that extra 27% of voters. Or it could well be have been just as split, as it is now - or with a bigger margin one way or the other - but the point I'm trying to make is all the reminers that are saying vote leave "only just" got the win isn't accurate because 27% of the registered voters didn't cast a vote at all.

I think the Govt ignoring the voters would be an extremely bad idea, they have little enough confidence from us as it is, and there were a great many voters who knew exactly what they were doing, and the implications when they voted.

 

[MIGNAL]

Rumours of HSBC moving jobs to Paris.
TATA steel bidders having second thoughts after Brexit result.
I think it's starting.

 

[woodpig]

Some interesting reading here. It never was just about trade.

http://www.rense.com/general87/nationstates.htm

 

[Noel]

NI kicked out of Europe twice in 2 days....

 

[Eric The Viking]

Some interesting reading here. It never was just about trade.

http://www.rense.com/general87/nationstates.htm

Grrr. I was looking for that Monnet quote a couple of weeks ago!

 

[lurker]

Moderators s please shut this down.

People who I had previously considered to be nice are full of bile and hatred and I don't want to know about that side of them.

Things were fairly good until the result but now it's just nasty

 

[woodpig]

Some interesting reading here. It never was just about trade.

http://www.rense.com/general87/nationstates.htm

Grrr. I was looking for that Monnet quote a couple of weeks ago!

Well just ignore the first few lines then and read the rest. :wink:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Some interesting reading here. It never was just about trade.

http://www.rense.com/general87/nationstates.htm

If you read about its history from the beginning, it is 100% obvious that it never was. The electorate have been lied to consistently since the Treaty of Rome. What do we know, though, eh?

 

[Rhossydd]

Adding the Leave votes to the No Shows makes a

Great spin. So everyone that's on electoral register and didn't/couldn't vote wanted to leave ?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No, they were happy to go with the majority - otherwise they'd have voted.