Yet another Rutlands rant

[Joints]

EXACT same thing happened to me. Bought the same saw, rang them up told it was being delivered today, rang the actual supplier and they said out of stock until June.

You would think a company such as Rutlands would have better systems and admin to figure out they are selling items they dont even have.

Probably the last time I will buy anything from them, I need a service that is reliable if I am running a business.

 

[OPJ]

It'd be foolish to think all the companies aren't watching these forums daily. It's even more foolish of Rutlands to carry on with such poor service when they get such a bad press here.

You may already know this but, I noticed the other day that you can e-mail their MD directly - see here. Just in case you ever felt your thoughts weren't getting past the sales team...

(Just for the record, I have never had a problem with Rutlands.)

 

[jimi43]

I get the feeling that most suppliers (other than showroom stock) actually only order from the manufacturer when the order comes in. I think this is particularly true for large kit.

I KNOW this was the case with my Scheppach...the deliver date was BS...just to hook you in (IMHO allegedly...etc...) and I think I could work out the date of actual delivery if I had a container schedule to check deliveries from China!

It's the way of the world with most suppliers these days...holding stock is a capital nightmare!

Jim

 

[StevieB]

Thanks OPJ but I think the MD can wait - I am happy with the no cost wait and see in May solution.

Jim - but if you are having a 10% sale, and have done in the past, you must know how many of what items you are likely to shift. Most people wait for a sale for big purchases because a corresponding % discount is larger than on a £3 box of screws. Surely its not beyond them to give a heads up to SIP that they are holding a sale? Even if they still cannot hold a couple extra of every item, stating delivery in 3-4 working days is just plain silly when they don't even know if there is one in the country. As saisd before, its the management of the situation that is at fault rather than the quality of the product or the price of it.

Steve

 

[big soft moose]

I get the feeling that most suppliers (other than showroom stock) actually only order from the manufacturer when the order comes in. I think this is particularly true for large kit.

that cant be so of axminster (or screwfix) who generally deliver next day and within 14 days for heavy kit (the delay there being to do with the HGV delivery schedule)

 

[jimi43]

I get the feeling that most suppliers (other than showroom stock) actually only order from the manufacturer when the order comes in. I think this is particularly true for large kit.

that cant be so of axminster (or screwfix) who generally deliver next day and within 14 days for heavy kit (the delay there being to do with the HGV delivery schedule)

Axminster excepted....but I already made my point about their amazing service in their thread and they are the exception rather than the rule these days. As you say Steve...it is down to supply chain management. I don't give a monkey's toss if they ARE delivered directly from China if the leadtime is honest and not reliant on "hope"!

And I don't expect suppliers to hold multi-thousand pound machines on the off-chance that they may not sell...models are changing daily and to tie up stock is not good business practice either.....

It is the management of expectancy that is the issue.....and in some cases the management of oversubscription of a good offer....it just needs handling correctly....Axminster do this in spades too!

Jim

 

[frugal]

It is the management of expectancy that is the issue.....and in some cases the management of oversubscription of a good offer....it just needs handling correctly....Axminster do this in spades too!

I have to say that last weekend at Yandles, Record did a good job of managing expectations. I spent most of the day debating whether to get a CL3 or CL4. I finally made up my mind late in the afternoon at which point they had sold all of the stock of CL4s they had brought even the display model.

They admitted that they had no more in the country and it would be mid May before I got one, but to make up for it they knocked some more money off of the already low show price and free delivery. They were very up front in admiting that the was going to be a lead time whcih meant that I knew up front what I was getting into.

 

[woodsworth]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220590280719&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[woodsworth]

And I don't expect suppliers to hold multi-thousand pound machines on the off-chance that they may not sell...models are changing daily and to tie up stock is not good business practice either.....

I do expect them to carry what they are selling. Anyone could make up a website sell anything and wait for it to come at the mercy of who ever and plenty do. But you would expect companies like Rutlands and Axminster to carry said tools.

When i recently bought my festool table i checked who actually had the item to sell instead of have it shipped to me from Germany because that shows they have invested in their business, not to mention i got it the next day! If it didn't come the next day I would of canceled the sale out of principle. The only way businesses learn is the loss of revenue from their mistakes.

Think of it how much would it cost to open up a business where you didn't actually have to have any stock at all? For that matter any of us could do that.

 

[jimi43]

And think of the cost of holding large or expensive item stock on the off-chance that you want one!

The bigger companies tend to rely on volume and distribution....yes they hold stock but it may not be in the branch that you order it. It may be accessible from all branches to be delivered to anywhere in the UK.

That way, larger market share means more stable volume forecasting means more sales confidence means more market share...etc.

In addition, yes they may have sample Festool tools and the larger distributors may be required to hold a certain stock level by the manufacturer...I would think this were the case for Festool...because it is their reputation as well that is at stake BUT...if the delivery can be made to you "next day" or within a few days from Germany...does it matter?

They don't stick these things on clipper ships anymore ya know!

What irks me are the retailers and Internet scam artists who profess to stock something when they know full well they don't. And the leadtime to deliver is anyone's guess.

They are the ones whose "business" ethics are in question.

I think we are singing from the same hymnsheet...it is just that the old business model of stock holding is fading fast...it is the efficient distributors who will win....like Axminster!

Jim

 

[Mr Ed]

...it is just that the old business model of stock holding is fading fast...it is the efficient distributors who will win....like Axminster!

I think in their particular case they do hold stock of everything, which is one of the reasons why they are successful IMO.

Ed

 

[matt]

It's common practice to fulfill customers orders direct from suppliers. Any retailer that didn't take advantage of this method would be foolish. They do, however, need to quote accurate leadtimes.  

Investing in stock is not investing in your business if you have the option not to. In fact it's the opposite.

 

[Mr Ed]

Consignment stock is the thinking mans solution to that quandry.

Ed

 

[woodsworth]

Investing in stock is not investing in your business if you have the option not to. In fact it's the opposite.

This simply isn't true at all. Perhaps you are used to lead times but that doesn't make for good business at all. It is only tolerable. I would venture to say that Axminster and Rutlands do stock everything on their list of items for sale and then some. This doesn't mean vast amounts of them and if there was a rush on them they would be caught with their pants down but that is much better then 5 days from Germany.

In the case where the SIP disappeared before the OP could get it, they probably didn't account for a rush on saws, so only had a few on hand. Any successful Tool company will be able to outfit you within a day or two of ordering because they are on top of their inventory and get repeat business because of such service. Look at screwfix, axminster, rutlands, these companies can get goods to you within a very short period of time screwfix especially. Not all the time but most of the time. On something Rutlands wins and somethings Axminster wins but you will always find happy customers from both. Axminster even shows if they have something in stock.

 

[matt]

It is true and it has nothing to do with my experience as a customer - quite the opposite in fact... :wink:

Retailers will "show" you that they have something in stock when, in fact, it is the supplier's inventory. This is not unusual. Some retailers do it better than others. Some ringfence stock. Some have better relationships with suppliers. Some make more money for their suppliers. Believe it or not, suppliers and retailers work together to make money, not against each other...

In some cases retailers purchase stock but leave it at the supplier's warehouse too - again, not unusual.

And I'm not saying that retailers should not be investing in stock at all - a significant volume is kept in stock simply because of high volume sales, imports, etc. However, you shouldn't judge a retailer on what they buy and where they keep it, simply on how competitive they are when it gets to successfully satisfying a sale.

Therefore, putting faith in a retailer because they hold stock is a mistake. In some cases the suppliers distribution centre will be nearer to some customers. In most cases you may have no idea where the stock is sourced. Ownership is simply the act of paying for something - nothing to do with where it is physically kept. Supplier A could say "yes, we have that in stock..." and they'd be quite correct. They own stock in Festool's DC in Germany. Meanwhile, supplier B tells you that they can get it delivered from, erm, Germany...

Any retailer who invests in stock when they have the option not to (read the obvious - remain competitive in all respects) is plain daft - stock is a depreciating asset in most cases. The longer you own it the more it owes you. The more susceptible you are to losses due to obsolescence or shifts in market value. It is NOT an investment in your business - it's a necessary evil where you have to do it but it is never, ever, an investment. Money spent on your infrastructure to support NOT buying stock IS an investment. Anything that makes you money IS and investment. Anything that saves you money IS an investment. Selling stock makes you money. Selling stock that you haven't had to purchase makes you MORE money.

So, if Rutlands are selling from supplier stock, this is NOT a good example...

 

[jimi43]

Any retailer who invests in stock when they have the option not to (read the obvious - remain competitive in all respects) is plain daft....

Precisely.

Jim

 

[Benchwayze]

I think I would be tempted to find a nearby supplier for any machine I wanted. Then I'd hire a white van, and 'enslave' my hulking Son for a day, to go and fetch the machine personally. That would cost me extra pennies I suppose, but worth it for far less hassle.

On the other hand, Kendal Machinery up in Cumbria were great to me when I bought my Sedgwick planer. The guy delivered it himself on the back of a Pick-up! (Twenty years ago though!)

Regards
John

 

[big soft moose]

thing is i'm not convinced the rutlands problem is related so much to stock holding per se as it is to knowing (or not knowing) what you've got in stock or available from your distributor, and being honest in sharing that knowledge with the customer.

you dont get this rubbish from axminster or for that matter screwfix/toolstation because they are big enough to hold stocks in their own warehouses

but you also dont get this rubbish from the little guys like workshop heaven, classic hand toolsd, turners retreat etc - because they are small enough that they know what they have, and what they have available.

also at the bottom line all of the above retailers havent lost sight of the cruicail truth that customer opinion matters, and if something is currently out of stock its better to be honest about it , even if that means not getting the sale this time round , than it is to lie and obfusicate and risk never getting a sale from that customer ever again.

 

[StevieB]

So by way of an update, e-mailed Rutlands today to chase the order as we are now mid-May, to get an e-mail back saying its out of stock until early June now. :evil: If I hadn't already sold the kity I would have cancelled the order by now, and am still sorely tempted too. The only thing stopping me is I have to go over 700 notes to get anything else as good. Seriously considering cancelling and seeing how I get on for a while with just a bandsaw and a chopsaw. If anyone has a SIP 01332 they are looking to offload do drop me a PM!

Steve

 

[wizer]

Sounds like they have got you by the short and curlies. It's all been said above. But for the interest they have earned on your 700 squids, they should be giving you a few free gifts. Obviously, if it was Axminster, that probably wouldn't be such a bizarre statement!