Yet another Rutlands rant

[StevieB]

Aaargh! I know, I know - done to death and we all know it anyway, but sheesh its annoying.

Ordered my SIP 01332 in the Rutlands sale, sold the kity to pay for it and now have a big space in the workshop waiting for the new saw. Got an order confirmation from Rutlands, e-mailed to confirm a delivery date and was assured 3-4 days sir, its in stock - we will call you to arrange delivery shortly. So 5 days pass and nothing. Phoned Rutlands today to be told oh, its out of stock, not due in until mid-late May and by the way we have charged your credit card anyway. We did try and phone but you didnt answer and there is no reason at all why we didn't leave a message, we just didn't.

So I am now saw-less, £620 on the credit card and left wondering whether to cancel the order and get a refund or stick it out to mid-late May. Sickener is that there is no real alternative in that price bracket. I don't need the sliding table so the Axi is out, and I only went with Rutlands due to the 10% discount and free delivery. I am starting to wonder if I should cancel the order and see if I can live without a TS. Trouble is if I cannot then I doubt I will have the money any time soon to then get a decent one.

Think I can only stick it out really and see if they deliver in mid-May - anything else is cutting my nose off to spite my face. Annoying though!

End of rant - not really after alternative saw suggestions, just annoyed at yet more poor service from a company renowned for it. Should have known it was too good to be true

Steve

 

[MickCheese]

I would phone around, tell the story and see if anyone will get close to or match the price, then cancel with Rutlands if the price is right.

Worth a few telephone calls.

Mick

 

[frugal]

Phoned Rutlands today to be told oh, its out of stock, not due in until mid-late May and by the way we have charged your credit card anyway.

I am going to assume that when you ordered it was over the phone, or via the internet. In which case to be fair to them, they had three choices.

- They could take the payment straight away

- They could hold on to your card details including the 3 digit security code you would have given them over the phone or online. This would be in direct violation of the PCI compliance standard and the bank would have them hung drawn and quartered if they ever found out that a merchant was storing the CVV for 4 weeks.

- They could not take any payment and then call you to ask for your card details a second time at the point of dispatch, which inconvieniences you and causes confusion as people complain that they are being asked to pay twice (when in fact the first one did not go through, or did go through and was then refunded), and it means that they no longer have a guaranteed sale as you might well just refuse to pay at that point.

Not to say that Rutlands have great customer service, but sometimes when you look at it from their point of view some things start to make a bit more sense.

 

[Matt_S]

Frugal are you sure thems the rules? Many company including one I ordered from last night take security code but say we won't take payment till item is dispatched?

Only fair in my opinion

 

[DeepBlue]

I also recently bought a SIP 01332, but I decided to get it from yandles instead of rutlands because I thought they would have better customer service.

How wrong I was. They gave me a date, I stayed in all day waiting for it and it didn't turn up. When I phoned them, they said "oh yes, the supplier let us down, it'll be there some time in the next 2 weeks". I was actually more annoyed that the didn't tell me than SIP letting me down.

The also promised to phone me 4 days later and give me a definite date, but that didn't happen either. Luckily I was on holiday so I could wait around, but I was still 700 quid lighter with nothing to show for it!

 

[Dibs-h]

Frugal are you sure thems the rules? Many company including one I ordered from last night take security code but say we won't take payment till item is dispatched?

Only fair in my opinion

A merchant can pre-authorise the CC and have a payment set to go thru in 4 weeks time. In the meantime I suspect the balance available to spend is reduced. (not 100%, but fairly sure - as I stopped working for loan sharks some yrs ago - :wink

 

[wizer]

I believe in both Yandles and Rutlands case, the SIP saws are delivered direct from SIP. So this might explain the confused stock levels.

However, if they are keeping your money for over a month or more, then you are paying an extra month of interest and they earn an extra month of interest? Does that make sense? So I'd insist on your money back until they have stock available.

Plenty of other retailers are selling that saw. You might pay a bit more, but you get a bit more service.

 

[mickthetree]

the online merchant can part process the payment which puts a "shadow" on your account. Effectively it stops you spending the money and shows as withdrawn from your account.

They can then process the payment at a later stage. The payment details are often held with the payment processer, not the business itself.

Sorry to hear of your woes. If it were me, I would hold out, grumble a bit to Rutlands but not expect that it will do any good. Or write to their complaints dept explaining that you only placed the order because they confirmed it was in stock and see if you get anything out of it.

 

[CHJ]

If rutlands broke their contract, (written confirmation it's in stock & 3-4 days delivery) surely there is a case for small claims court compensation for loss of time awaiting delivery and loss of interest on money.

I know there are always things beyond a suppliers control but deliberately confirming an item is in stock when it clearly wasn't is fraudulent trading in my book.

Had they said it was currently in stock at the UK manufacture/importer then they would have been covered for delays in transportation, assuming that was a truthful statement.

Or are these views too simplistic.

 

[StevieB]

OK, just had a phone call from Rutlands to say they are refunding my card the £620, will place an order at the discounted price for May and will charge the card once SIP confirm the saw is back in stock. Seems fair to me so happy with that - it hasn't cost me anything and I still have the right to cancel in the meantime. Perhaps someone at Rutlands reads these forums now!

Cheers for the advice guys,

Steve

 

[mickthetree]

maybe they do.

Did I mention how I've always like rutlands? :wink:

 

[wizer]

It'd be foolish to think all the companies aren't watching these forums daily. It's even more foolish of Rutlands to carry on with such poor service when they get such a bad press here.

 

[head clansman]

hi steve

Sorry to here this, :twisted: :twisted: I see they haven't changed any :twisted: , I bought my saw back last early november from them was given two delivery dates both a month apart it did arrive on the second delivery day , when i unpacked IT (THATS WHEN MY NIGHTMARE STARTED) i found both the extension beds had deep grooves/scratches in them and ask for replacement rather than send the hole saw back wish i had now it's still on going now three delivery dates been and gone not due in till end of april now , the only difference from my order and yours they never took out any money from my card till it was delivered . Don't think there entitled to do so.

In hindsight wish i had cancelled but thought ah well they will at least replace damaged items no problem :roll: :roll: :roll: ha , I want to buy a sliding table to go on the 01332 , but from them, never never never . hc

 

[big soft moose]

OK, just had a phone call from Rutlands to say they are refunding my card the £620, will place an order at the discounted price for May and will charge the card once SIP confirm the saw is back in stock. Seems fair to me so happy with that - it hasn't cost me anything and I still have the right to cancel in the meantime. Perhaps someone at Rutlands reads these forums now!

Cheers for the advice guys,

Steve

you watch them charge you the non discounted price in may and tell you that the offer has expired.

If i was you i'd look arround dealers and ebay and such and if you find a deal cancel the rutlands order

 

[WoodAddict]

I have to say that as a newbie myself to all this "wood stuff" I have been put-off from using Rutlands, even though they have had a couple of nice "tempters" on their website in the past!

The one deciding factor being the poor customer service. You can understand the odd slip-up but when they are constantly slated, they've got to realise that it needs sorting out!

Just my 2 pennies worth :?

 

[head clansman]

hi steve

just an other thought , if you decide to cancel , and they wont pay it back , contact your card company and get them to stop payment to rutlands , if you decide to do this you need to make up your mind soon . hc

 

[lurker]

Although I'm usually early in the queue to knife Rutlands at any opportunity I don't think SIP are that good. So maybe Rutlands is not to blame.

Their head office is not far from me & I have several ex-workmates who have worked there and they are not exactly full of enthusiasm for the place.

 

[big soft moose]

Although I'm usually early in the queue to knife Rutlands at any opportunity I don't think SIP are that good. So maybe Rutlands is not to blame.

Their head office is not far from me & I have several ex-workmates who have worked there and they are not exactly full of enthusiasm for the place.

SIP are notorious for iffy customer service too, but the onus is still on rutlands to sort their supplier out - you dont get that kind of thing from axminster , toolpost, or workshop heaven - but then again none of them trade with sip

 

[frugal]

Frugal are you sure thems the rules? Many company including one I ordered from last night take security code but say we won't take payment till item is dispatched?

Only fair in my opinion

Several others have commented that it is possible to put a pending order in which they can just activate at a later date, which may well be what they do. I have never dealt with the different ways that the payment can be taken, just the records of the transaction.

The PCI standard is very clear on which bits of data you can keep and which bits you must destroy and must never record anywhere, even in transation logs. You can keep the Card number, cardholder name, service code and expiration date so long as you encrypt them when you store them, or only store a partial amount (first 6 digits and last 4 digits of card number are usual). Under no circumstances are you allowed to store the magnetic stripe information, the CVV (3 digit security code) or the PIN.

For those who are interested the full standard is here: https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/security_standards/pci_dss.shtml.

 

[matt]

You can pre-auth on £1 and, off the top of my head, refund immediately.