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dh7892

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I've just moved house and all my tools etc are currently in the loft doing no one any good. So, I want to build a shed to work in.

I've seen loads of impressive builds on this site and I'm sure my modest attempt will be very poor in comparison. Whilst starting to plan the project, I took a quick look at planing permission rules even though you don't need planning permission for a shed right? Well it seems that you don't need permission provided you meet certain criteria one of which is that no part of the shed is within one metre of a boundary!

I have seen a lot of sheds in my time and none of them is more than a metre from a fence. Does this mean that everyone gets permission for these? I doubt it.

Have I got my facts wrong?

I seem to remember topics like this coming up on this site bout I couldn't find them with the search tool so apologies if I'm going over old ground.
 

Dibs-h

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dh7892":3o4lhr6a said:
I've just moved house and all my tools etc are currently in the loft doing no one any good. So, I want to build a shed to work in.

I've seen loads of impressive builds on this site and I'm sure my modest attempt will be very poor in comparison. Whilst starting to plan the project, I took a quick look at planing permission rules even though you don't need planning permission for a shed right? Well it seems that you don't need permission provided you meet certain criteria one of which is that no part of the shed is within one metre of a boundary!

I have seen a lot of sheds in my time and none of them is more than a metre from a fence. Does this mean that everyone gets permission for these? I doubt it.

Have I got my facts wrong?

I seem to remember topics like this coming up on this site bout I couldn't find them with the search tool so apologies if I'm going over old ground.
When you say shed - you obviously don't mean the cheap 8x6 that actually are sheds? You mean a proper place for wood butchering?

If it's the latter - IIRC the 1m thing is from Building Regs about the structure being made from mainly non-combustable materials. The planning requirement is related to footprint (I think) but mainly the ridge height - i.e. over a certain height then you will require PP.

MikeG is back so he might be able to chip in - or someone else. You could always have a look at at either Planning Portal or your LA's planning page. Sometimes a quick phone call can yield results.

In my case - my "shed" is bigger than some bungalows so need PP.

Dibs
 

BigMac

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Planning Portal is the right place to look http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 33153.html

Basically you need to think about it in two stages - planning permission and building regs.

Assuming you aren't in a conservation area, area of natural beauty etc. then (assuming there haven't previously been planning conditions attached to your house) you can without planning permission:

1. cover up to half of your back garden in sheds and other buildings

2. build these buildings to a max height of 2.5m if within 2m of the boundary or (if no part of it is within 2m of the boundary) 4m for a dual pitch roof or 3m for any other other roof

So generally if it is in your back garden planning people only care about the height for most projects.

Building regs on the other hand will be necessary if you are doing any electrics without a proper sparky, will be necessary if it is over 30sqm and will be necessary if it is over 15sqm and within 1m of the boundary and isn't "substantially non-combustible" (i.e. brick and tile or similar).
 

MikeG.

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Because this question crops up so often, and because the above answer is so clear and concise, I reckon that this thread would be useful as a "sticky".

Are there any moderators reading this who might consider stickyfying it?

-

All I would add is don't be hidebound by these heights and areas. If you want bigger or taller or closer to the boundary, obtaining Planning Permission is not really a big deal......and Building Regs Approval is generally extremely straight forward if you employ someone competent.

Mike
 

dh7892

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Thanks for the replies.

I might well be talking about just a fairly basic bought shed on brick piles or a concrete base. I'm not really certain just yet.

That link to the planning portal is very helpful. Since it's a .gov address I also consider it to be a more authoritative link than the one I was looking at.

I have been on this site: http://diydata.com/planning/planregperm/planning_rules.php

At the bottom of the page it states:

Neither Planning Permission or Building Regulation approval is required provided that:

* Sheds and greenhouses do not cover more than half of the area of the garden; not including the area occupied by the house.
* It contains no sleeping accommodation and the floor area does not exceed 15 square metres.
* No point is less than one metre from a boundary.
* It is not more than 3m high for a flat roof, or 4m with a ridged roof.
* No part projects beyond any wall of the house that faces a road.
* The outbuilding is for use only by those who occupy the house.

Building Regulations do state that structures built of combustible material (i.e. a wooden shed) must be at least 2 metres from the main house.
Which is similar to but not quite the same as what the planning portal says.

In terms of speaking with a local planning office, I'll probably end up doing that. Before I get to that, I'll have a chat with my office mate who is also my local councilor! (when he gets back from holiday). He's a very good source of information.
 

Jake

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Minor amendment, which is that the area criteria is not more than 50% of the curtilage minus the area of the house i.e. includes the area of front garden, side alleys etc, not the just back garden.
 

BigMac

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dh7892 - I think DIYData have failed to update the outbuildings bit for the 2008 changes (although they do list the 2008 changes for extensions).

Jake - If you really want to get into the details its curtilage minus the size of the house when it was built or in 1948, whichever was most recent. I just added a bit of leeway and frankly think you'd be mad to concrete over more than half your garden!

Definitely my OP was just meant as a quick summary and if you're pushing the boundaries or doing anything unusual you should be looking at the planning portal and talking with your local planning department. There are all kinds of other oddities like where you measure for the roof heigh from if you're not on a flat site and the biggest gotcha these days is likely to be if you've recently bought a new build house where you may well find you've had all of your permitted development rights removed.
 

dh7892

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BigMac - So are you saying that it used to be the case the you needed permission for a shed that was within 1m of a boundary but that those rules changes in 2008?

If so, I still think there are a lot of sheds out there that were put up without the required permission.

Anyway, thanks for all the info. It sounds like the best thing is for me to plan my shed then give the planning office a call and run it by them just to be on the safe side.
 

BigMac

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dh7892":3p8yxdbp said:
BigMac - So are you saying that it used to be the case the you needed permission for a shed that was within 1m of a boundary but that those rules changes in 2008?
Yep, although the rules used to be a lot more complicated (sheds used to be able to end up being considered extensions for example if within 5m) and even a couple of years ago you got people making comments about temporary buildings being permitted which just wasn't true.

Fact is I'm sure there are lots of illegal sheds, but unless you p off the neighbours the planning people are never going to find out.



Oh and I just remembered my other reason for the back garden comment is that it neatly sidesteps having to add as an individual requirement that you can't generally put sheds in your front garden without planning.
 

dh7892

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Fact is I'm sure there are lots of illegal sheds, but unless you p off the neighbours the planning people are never going to find out.
Indeed, in fact I was a bit worried that asking about permission for me might bring the attentions of an over zealous planning official to our area which might raise problems for one neighbour who seems to have a few rather large pigeon lofts. He may well have permission for all I know but, like you say, not a good way to introduce yourself to the locals by getting their sheds knocked down!
 

BigMac

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Not sure there is any need to tell them who you are or where you live.

Unless you pay them they won't give you any kind of legally binding sign off on it (certificate of permitted development? I think its called) so no reason to be discussing your specific case with them rather than just trying to talk in generalities on a no names basis.
 

BigShot

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One thing to be aware of with planning officers, is they are (taken as a group) probably the most non-comittal bunch of so-and-sos I've ever come across - with a possible exception made for some (but not all) particularly slimy politicians.

Pre-application you'll ask something and "it depends" would be a specific answer compared to the "there's no way of knowing without submitting a drawing" you usually get.

The ones I deal with will never give a straight answer, will never tell you what an issue would depend on, whether there's an in-principle objection to something or anything else that's even vaguely useful.

Some aren't like that, but the vast, vast majority are.

Just this week I described a proposal to a planning officer that I knew they would NEVER pass in a MILLION years (the client wanted me to check just in case), asked if they'd object in principle after making abundantly clear there was nothing like it in the area and got the same "need to make an application" mantra.

By all means, contact your local planning department, but don't expect anything useful from them - if you then get something worth knowing it will be a pleasant surprise.
 

MikeG.

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I don't know what part of the country you are in, Big Shot, but that is the complete opposite of my experience with Planning Officers.

If there are any questions in my mind as to whether I will achieve Planning Permission, I generally approach them with a site plan, a back-of-the-envelope sketch and some site photos. They are invariably helpful.

Of course, they can't guarantee permission, as there is a proper process to follow (and the powers they have are only delegated to them anyway, by the full Council)....thus if you seek anything in writing you will get words like........"....would receive officer level support in principle for a well designed 2 storey dwelling"......or "I give this advice without prejudice".

Planning Officers won't know about the Planning status of everyone else's sheds, either. They will also have absolutely no interest, unless they get a complaint. There is very little danger that a visit by anyone to the Council offices to discuss a proposal pre-application could ever lead to action being taken against someone elses' shed. Unless you are proposing a huge or controversial development, you won't get a Planning Officer to do a site visit prior to an application being submitted.

Mike
 

Waka

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I'm a bit confused (thats not hard) regarding the erection of something within 1 m of the boundary and planning permission. When I had my workshop extended a couple of years ago I followed the line of the existing building which is the actual boundary.

I put in an application with plans to see if I needed planing permission and the answer came back in writing as a no. Doesn't this contradict the 1 m boundary rule, or have I missed something?
 

BigShot

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Mike, I certainly wouldn't expect a planning officer to give any guarantees, but in my experience a lot of them won't even say whether they would object to something "in principle" or not even when they have a really clear description.

That includes officers in a number of Manchester councils (Tameside, Manchester, Bury, Salford, Stockport, Bolton) and also Preston and one or two others. Bury has such a reputation I frequently have new clients asking if they are really as bad as they've heard from friends.

I've had good experience with "pre-planning advice" where the client is definitely going ahead with a job and wants to get the council involved before getting quotes from contractors (I only work in the design side of the job) so gets us in to do the drawings, submit and deal with the planning officer.

The problem really arises when you're asking a question which could make the difference between a job being possible or not.

The most recent example was a dormer loft conversion on a low-ridge roof, client asked about having a front and rear dormer meeting above the existing ridge, no neighbours had any similar work done.

The flat refusal to give even confirm if there was an objection in-principle to that kind of work means a client has to choose between doing nothing, or getting plans drawn up and making an application, waiting weeks for a response - and if refused they have wasted hundreds of pounds.

In the example I gave I suspect they wouldn't pass the plans, but the refusal to even be drawn a bit is just annoying.

Many times in the past I've made a call to find out if there were any objections "in principle", even going as far as a rough sketch at times, being given the usual response and after making the application being told about 2 days later there's no way in hell it'll be passed for in-principle reasons x, y and z (all reasons they'd been asked about before but said either nothing, or no "in principle" objection).

Yea, some of them are fine, but for the most part they are a bit of a nightmare around here. Some of them are just flat out stupid and have absolutely NO eye for what looks good on a building.

Some of our local officers have turned a large portion of this area into an eyesore thanks to their absolutely idiotic interpretation of a particular "guideline". Under the new permitted development rules they have been overruled, but it doesn't make the jobs they changed to their personal preference look any better. The amount of kooky looking oddities on houses that have been put on to please planners or get around their really petty requirments is shockingly large.

Exceptions to the above made for any actual human beings who work in planning departments, of course. There just aren't many around here.
 

ferdinand

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Two potentially useful sources of information:

1 - The Forums over at the gardenlaw.co.uk website are very good on points of law and not upsetting your neighbours.

2 - There's often good general advice on websites of organisation dealing with "Garden Offices" and chalet-style rooms, without mentioning any particular company. Clearly people on ukworkshop are capable of building their own, but the FAQ sections can be useful.

Ferdinand
 

big soft moose

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okay so ive read the thread and i'm now more confused than when i started (not difficult in my case)

can somebody clarify , if i want to put up a shed (and i'm talking about one of those 6x4 efforts you get in B&Q etc - the purpose being to store swimbos bike and gardening tools and other rubbish that keeps making its way back into the 'shop) can it be closer than 1m to the boundary without PP or not.

I'm fairly sure that ellie next door wont care anyway but we are tennants and the letting agency will probably want everything done to the letter.
 

BigMac

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Assuming you aren't in a conservation area, area of natural beauty etc. then there shouldn't be a problem as its well under the building regs size limit and should be under 2.5m tall.
 

Dibs-h

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big soft moose":23gbnb56 said:
okay so ive read the thread and i'm now more confused than when i started (not difficult in my case)

can somebody clarify , if i want to put up a shed (and i'm talking about one of those 6x4 efforts you get in B&Q etc - the purpose being to store swimbos bike and gardening tools and other rubbish that keeps making its way back into the 'shop) can it be closer than 1m to the boundary without PP or not.

I'm fairly sure that ellie next door wont care anyway but we are tennants and the letting agency will probably want everything done to the letter.
I always took it that PP had nothing to do with the 1m thing - that is\was more from a BR perspective. To be honest as it's one of those 6'x4' things - I'd just put it where you fancy (as long as the neighbours don't have an issue). There must be 1000's of those up and down the country - right up to the boundary.
 
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