wooden planes purchase

[marcros]

i have just collected a few wooden planes that I bought from ebay. The listing was vague- 5 wooden planes and a metal one. I paid a fiver, based on the fact that there looked to be a shoulder plane, and a wooden fillister plane amongst them. I wanted a small shoulder plane, and for a fiver I thought it was a better bet than the lottery. What I am trying to say is that if they all turn out to be useless, then I am not that bothered!

No blades or planes are obviously marked with a makers mark, other than 4 and 5.

1st up, a shoulder plane. Bit narrower than I wanted, but it might be handy. looks like beech, and I am guessing user made? 3/8" pr thereabouts i think.

2nd, I assume this is a skewed rebate plane. It seems a useful size, and will do for cleaning up tenon cheeks and shoulders I think. beech with a boxwood sole and wedge. 3/4" or so wide, by eye. User made I think.

3rd. boxwood moving filister plane (i think). depth stop. seems well made.

4th. This and the next one are a mystery to me. They are vaguely a pair, but marked differently. blade is skewed, there is a nicker present. Also a depth stop and a fence. beech with a boxwood insert along the sole. any ideas? This one has the depth stop and a thumb screw on top to adjust. Marked Atkin and Sons, Sheffield Works, Birmingham. A funny horseshoe mark and Benefactum inside it.

5th. slightly simpler than above but similar. no thumb screw to adjust the depth. Beechwood body with a much smaller boxwood strip on it. nicker missing but I can see where it should be. Marked A Eyre, 326 Euston Road, London. Appears to be the same hand as above, so a duplicate rather than a pair.

6th. A record 044. I fancied one of these and am just over half way there now. It needs another long bar and a depth stop. And some blades. Anybody got the dregs on one under their bench? I guess that neither would be too complex to make.

i keep losing this thread so will edit and upload pics in a few minutes

 

[Vann]

6th. A record 044. I fancied one of these and am just over half way there now. It needs another long bar and a depth stop. And some blades.

Hey, at least it's got the blade clamp - so often missing on the 043 & 044.

You say "it needs another long bar", does that mean it's got both short bars? They may be all you need.

Nice haul, especially for a fiver.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[marcros]

no it has one of each bars. will the depth stop from my 043 work?

 

[Scouse]

3rd. boxwood moving filister plane (i think). depth stop. seems well made.

4th. This and the next one are a mystery to me. They are vaguely a pair, but marked differently. blade is skewed, there is a nicker present. Also a depth stop and a fence. beech with a boxwood insert along the sole. any ideas? This one has the depth stop and a thumb screw on top to adjust. Marked Atkin and Sons, Sheffield Works, Birmingham. A funny horseshoe mark and Benefactum inside it.

5th. slightly simpler than above but similar. no thumb screw to adjust the depth. Beechwood body with a much smaller boxwood strip on it. nicker missing but I can see where it should be. Marked A Eyre, 326 Euston Road, London. Appears to be the same hand as above, so a duplicate rather than a pair.

3rd is a plough plane, 4th and 5th are both moving filisters.

 

[marcros]

3rd. boxwood moving filister plane (i think). depth stop. seems well made.

4th. This and the next one are a mystery to me. They are vaguely a pair, but marked differently. blade is skewed, there is a nicker present. Also a depth stop and a fence. beech with a boxwood insert along the sole. any ideas? This one has the depth stop and a thumb screw on top to adjust. Marked Atkin and Sons, Sheffield Works, Birmingham. A funny horseshoe mark and Benefactum inside it.

5th. slightly simpler than above but similar. no thumb screw to adjust the depth. Beechwood body with a much smaller boxwood strip on it. nicker missing but I can see where it should be. Marked A Eyre, 326 Euston Road, London. Appears to be the same hand as above, so a duplicate rather than a pair.

3rd is a plough plane, 4th and 5th are both moving filisters.

Thanks Scouse- am I likely to be able to get any cutters for the plough plane or is it likely to be a lost cause? I guess that the starting place will be ebay and the usual dealers. I will give it a try with the cutter in it to see that it all works first.

What is a moving filister used for- i assume cross grain rebates.

Are the above types used like my little 043- start from the far end of the workpiece and slowly increase the length of area planed as the groove gets down to full depth?

 

[Scouse]

Thanks Scouse- am I likely to be able to get any cutters for the plough plane or is it likely to be a lost cause? I guess that the starting place will be ebay and the usual dealers. I will give it a try with the cutter in it to see that it all works first.

What is a moving filister used for- i assume cross grain rebates.

Are the above types used like my little 043- start from the far end of the workpiece and slowly increase the length of area planed as the groove gets down to full depth?

Here's a start http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Selection-of- ... 3a7edaeb56

Quite different to those found in 043/044/050 type planes.

The moving fillister is, as you say, for rebates. I use a similar old Mathieson, which replaced my Stanley 78; the skew blade helps across the grain.

Although with a plough plane I would start at the far end and increase the length of cut to establish the groove, I don't really bother with the moving fillister; couldn't tell you why! I do make a pass backwards though to allow the nicker to score a line. Same technique as the plough, left hand guides, right pushes.

El.

 

[carlb40]

Well done on the planes, i have yet to sharpen the blade on my 040 that i found on a job years ago

Not sure if you have seen this, it may help?

record-043-replacement-parts-t61361.html

 

[marcros]

thanks. The depth stop shouldnt be too bad to make I dont think. If the 043 one fits, I will just swap it between the planes. A bit of brass bar will do for the long rail.

I was having a look for cutters- I am tempted to see which ones will be most useful to me when I start using the thing- one matched exactly to the thinkness of ply or mdf I am using my be handy.

 

[Corneel]

The moving filister also works perfectly well along the grain. The skew helps to push the fence against the stock. Nice planes for little money. You did very well.

I think #1 is a normal rebate plane, not a shoulderplane. As far as I know, shoulderplanes are bevel up and you don't see these in wooden form.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

A set of new irons for the 044 can be had from Ray Iles at http://www.oldtools.free-online.co.uk/ if one doesn't come up on the dreaded 'bay.

From memory, the fence bars can be replaced by 7mm silver steel (but check first - my memory plays tricks on me sometimes!). A piece of silver steel is 13" long, so with a bit of luck, you may get one long and one short fencebar out of a length.

For a depthstop, most of the secondhand dealers have a box of bits they don't bother putting on the websites, so a ring round a few of them may be all that's needed.

Sets of wooden plough irons come up on Ebay occasionally, and the dealers may also be able to help. A set is usually 8 irons, the smallest being about 1/8", the largest about 5/8". I say 'about' because they often vary just a bit from exact size. Plough irons have a groove down the back which engages with the angle formed on the skate at the mouth of the plane, and these do vary slightly, so it may be a good idea to take the plane to a dealer and get a set of irons that fits your plane. Must be a fairly common request of dealers, since plane and irons often seem to become separated at sale.

Finally - that's one heck of a good haul for a fiver! Well done, Sir!

Edit to add - when I said 'wooden plough irons' I meant irons for wooden ploughs, not plough irons made of wood! Also, the fencebars for the 044 may be 9mm, if they're the same as my 045. Well worth checking yours before parting with coinage!

 

[DTR]

Also, the fencebars for the 044 may be 9mm, if they're the same as my 045. Well worth checking yours before parting with coinage!

It's definately worth checking... I have two Record 050s: one has plain holes with the fence bars being secured by set screws; the other has threaded holes and no set screws :?

 

[marcros]

thanks, i will put a set of callipers across the bars that are fitted.

 

[AndyT]

You did very very well there! Remarkably good value!

Your first plane is a rebate plane (like your second) - rebate planes were made in widths from 1/4" up to 2" though as with most tools the extremes are uncommon. A narrow size might be a little bit easier to handle if you needed to cut a square rebate into an existing curved surface where another element would have got in the way (hardly a common task!). Most of the time an ordinary sized plane of about an inch would do.

They are most probably professionally made, even if unmarked. I think I've read that some makers didn't put their names on 'ordinary' grade planes (eg those made of slightly less perfectly grained beech).

The resoling of your second plane looks like it could have been done by a careful owner - evidence that it was a useful plane worth spending time on.

Your third plane - the plough - is especially nice to get as it has the screw stem adjustment rather than the commoner (and cheaper) wedge arrangement. This would have been an expensive plane. What's more, it has still got both of its slim nuts - often one is broken or missing.

In my experience, plough plane irons were remarkably closely standardised and you should be able to use wedges from a variety of makers as you manage to acquire them. At worst, you might need to make a new wedge if your new irons are very different, but the size and positioning of the groove will be the same. The most useful one is the 1/4", so this is often missing from sets, or significantly shorter.

Your fourth and fifth - the moving fillisters - show that this was also a sort of plane that every joiner needed, so there were various options to match what he could afford, with your fourth one being a dearer model than the fifth. The way that the boxwood edging was fitted could get wonderfully elaborate on the top of the range planes, with labour-intensive long sliding dovetails to show off the quality. Its current metal equivalent - the Stanley 78 / Record 778 - is still offered even by places like Screwfix, so presumably site joiners still need to cut rebates sometimes. I find the wooden version much nicer to use, with the skewed blade being good even on plywood.

The missing depth stop is easily made from some scraps of steel - but it will still be useful without one.

 

[Vann]

From memory, the fence bars can be replaced by 7mm silver steel (but check first - my memory plays tricks on me sometimes!). A piece of silver steel is 13" long, so with a bit of luck, you may get one long and one short fencebar out of a length.

That's the size for the 043.

The 044 bars are ~9.8mm (as measured with my very-near), as are the bars for a #45 - and therefore a #405 as well. So that increases your chances of picking something up second-hand.

Edit to add - ....Also, the fencebars for the 044 may be 9mm, if they're the same as my 045. Well worth checking yours before parting with coinage!

Oops, I missed that edit (not that anyone has made an 045 - he means a 405 or 45 :mrgreen: )

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Edit to add - ....Also, the fencebars for the 044 may be 9mm, if they're the same as my 045. Well worth checking yours before parting with coinage!

Oops, I missed that edit (not that anyone has made an 045 - he means a 405 or 45 :mrgreen: )

Cheers, Vann.

No, I do mean 045 - it's the version that replaced the 044, and has the horrible plastic handle (that I'll replace when I get a round tuit). I've now miked the fence bars and they are also a rather inconvenient 9.8mm, which is 0.010" bigger than 3/8", and 0.008" smaller tham 10mm.

I think there are two possibilities. The first is to source spares from a dealer, the second is to buy a piece of 10mm drawn bright bar En8 or similar (try Folkestone Engineering Supplies) - drawn bar is often about 2 to 3 thou smaller than nominal, so it might just fit as bought. If it doesn't, not much work with emery cloth and a cordless drill will soon make it fit.


Edit to add - the fence rods probably started as 3/8" stock, and went up to 9.8mm when plated. For us, it's easier to start with something a shade larger and remove metal until they fit!

 

[Vann]

Aarrgh, I'm a dummkopf. I measured my 050 rods, not my 044 rods. However, I've now checked the 044 and the rods are also ~9.8mm diameter.

So that opens up the second-hand options even further (#044, #050, #405, #50 & #45) although as DTR points out, earlier models (of the 050/50 at least) had threaded-end rods (but still the same diameter). Looking at the OPs photo his 044 has the plain rods.

Cheshirechappie, do you mean a 045C? (hammer)

So add #044c, #045c & #050c rods to that list.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Did they ever sell an 045A or 045B?

I know there was an added extra (045K?) which was a second skate to make bead-cutting easier (I think), but as far as I know, no other added letters. I stand to be proved wrong, though!

 

[GazPal]

Did they ever sell an 045A or 045B?

I know there was an added extra (045K?) which was a second skate to make bead-cutting easier (I think), but as far as I know, no other added letters. I stand to be proved wrong, though!

I know there was a conversion kit for the 044C with secondary skate and beading stop, but haven't tripped over a 45C in the wold for quite some time now.

 

[Vann]

Did they ever sell an 045A or 045B?

No 045A or 045B as far as I know, but there was an 050A - basically an 050 with the two smallest cutters and clamping bracket added (which later became the standard).

I know there was an added extra (045K?) which was a second skate to make bead-cutting easier (I think), but as far as I know, no other added letters. I stand to be proved wrong, though!

It was the K050C.

Cheers, Vann.
(all info gleaned from http://www.recordhandplanes.com)