Wood Pitting

[Bigus]

Hi

I have a hunk of unknown hardwood that I got from a wood recycling place recently and have been planing it square.. or at least trying to.

However, it seems to be very pitted and I don't think it's just my fledgling planing skills! Pitted may not be the correct terms, so here are some photos:

It's those pitted streaks and areas running through it. Does this mean it's not a very good piece of wood or is it likely to be my fault in some way?

Also, if anyone knows what type of wood it is I'd be very interested. It isn't as pink/red as it looks in those photos.

Thanks
Bigus

 

[Chrispy]

Hi Bigus, the wood is either sapele or utile both are subject to having interlocking grain, that is has alternating bands sloping in different directions. You will need to get your plane as sharp as you can and set for a very fine cut, then you could try with a cabinet scraper to finish.
All the best

 

[mailee]

It's known as tear out. I sometimes get it on oak if the blades are starting to blunt. :wink:

 

[Bigus]

Hi Chris. Thanks for the id - looking at hobbithouse and the wood database, it's difficult to narrow it down between the two, although the end grain looks slightly more like Sapele than Utile.

So, it is my planing then! Back to the wetstone on Sunday and I'll try and get the blade sharper.

Thanks

 

[johnwc812]

Hi Bigus
A sharp finely set plane as suggested.
Try planing ACROSS the plank until the deepest tear out has all but gone,
before a final honing of the blade and then plane with the grain.
Cheers John

 

[MIGNAL]

It could be Khaya. That has a very Pinkish tone to it. Interlocked grain as well.

 

[tobytools]

if its sapele, is called "roey grain" or "ribbon grain" witch means its very sensitive to tear out. there are a few ways to deal with this, as said a super sharp iron and a close set chip break, dont skew.
.a higher pitch plane like LN's 55 bed.
.put a 15 degree back bevel on a standard iron
.low ang block plane with high pitch blade QS LA block accommodates this in one of the 3 irons you get
.you could use a scrapper plane, ie stanley no80 or record no080

hope this helps,
TT

 

[Paul Chapman]

Looks like Sapele to me. What you have is tear out which is a common problem with Sapele because of the reversing grain. There are various ways to deal with it and not make it any worse, depending on what tools you have available. One is a toothed blade and there's a good demonstration here by Deneb Puchalski http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl8Tj1lU ... F&index=31

Deneb is using a toothed blade in a bevel-up plane, but you can also get toothed blades for bevel-down planes



You could also try a low angle, bevel-up plane with the blade honed to a steep angle to provide a high effective pitch.

If you only have bevel-down planes, then a back bevel will give the same sort of high effective pitch.

Finally there is a scraper plane or a #80 style scraper.

Whatever you decide, make sure your blades are super-sharp

Hope this helps

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MrYorke]

Definitely sapele. Uses it for years and had that problem all the time.

 

[RogerS]

A drum sander is your friend !

 

[Bigus]

Thanks for the further replies - had another go today. A belt sander got most of the tearing out, quickly and smoothly. So sharpened the plane blade, applied to the wood and immediate fairly deep tear. Arghhh!

Across the plank sounds like a good idea, although not sure how that will work on the narrower sides. I probably need to get better at sharpening or maybe I need a better blade.. roll-on scientists inventing nanobot self-sharpening plane blades. Bagged a 60s/70s Record No. 8 jointer plane on Ebay today for £40.. will have to see how decent the blade is on that

Regards
Bigus

 

[RogerS]

Bigus.....don't tear your hair out! I regularly have a similar problem with flame mahogany and i simply thickness down to roughly the right dimension and then, as previously posted and as you have also found out, sand it down. Maybe there is a joinery company close to you who have a drum sander or similar.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I probably need to get better at sharpening or maybe I need a better blade.

A very sharp blade will help but your main problem is that you need to increase the effective pitch of your blade or use a scraper plane of some sort. With a steeper effective pitch or the use of a scraper plane, you could plane that wood perfectly well with no tear out.

As I said before, a toothed blade will also quickly plane the wood to rough size without tear out. You can then finish off with a scraper plane or a plane with a high effective pitch. When I modified my workbench and fitted new vices, I used some old Sapele just as bad as your stuff. I planed it to size with a toothed blade, which ensured no tear out



Then finished off with conventional planes or a scraper plane, depending on the particular piece of wood



Thereby obtaining a very nice, tear-free finish



Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Bigus]

Bigus.....don't tear your hair out!

Or my grain hopefully

Paul, I like your pictorial posts and that's an impressive pair of vices you have there! Will try a bevel on the upside of a spare plane blade and see how that goes - what sort of angle?

Couldn't resist purchasing another gadget and like the sound of those toothed irons, so ordered this (£27.50 - ouch):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kunz-Toothed- ... 0859361044

 

[Paul Chapman]

That's the same blade as I have. I had to get mine from Germany but it's good that Matthew from Workshop Heaven is now importing them

One thing you need to be aware of is that if you have the cap iron set normally, you will find that shavings get trapped between the cap iron and the blade, because of the teeth. You need to set the cap iron sufficiently far back to prevent this happening. This is the distance I have mine set back



In order to get it that far back without the blade sticking out too far, I had to grind a little off the end of the cap iron. If you have to do this, you will need to get hold of an old cap iron.

For the back bevel, you need to aim at an effective pitch of about 60 degrees or more. A bevel-down plane iron is bedded at 45 degrees, so you will need a back bevel of 15 degrees. Try that out and see how it goes. You will probably find that the plane is slightly harder to push with a higher effective pitch. And take very fine shavings.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Bigus]

That's the same blade as I have. I had to get mine from Germany but it's good that Matthew from Workshop Heaven is now importing them

Darn, they are £5 cheaper on his website! Quite cheap compared to many of the plane blades on that site though. I think my expectations of how much tooling costs is going to have to shift!

In order to get it that far back without the blade sticking out too far, I had to grind a little off the end of the cap iron. If you have to do this, you will need to get hold of an old cap iron.

OK that's useful to know thanks. I have a spare cap iron.

For the back bevel, you need to aim at an effective pitch of about 60 degrees or more. A bevel-down plane iron is bedded at 45 degrees, so you will need a back bevel of 15 degrees. Try that out and see how it goes. You will probably find that the plane is slightly harder to push with a higher effective pitch. And take very fine shavings.

I tried that and got it working after a fashion, i.e: only did a quick sharpen but no tearing when it did bite I'll await the Kunz though as it sounds easier and will try a scraper on the the result.

Regards
Bigus

 

[Paul Chapman]

Just seen this blog entry by Chris Schwarz which shows that use of a toothed blade to deal with tear-out goes back to at least 1825. Nothing's new http://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/09/09 ... -tear-out/

Cheers :wink:

Paul