WIP driveway gate (update 25 oct)

[Chris_belgium]

I'm finally gonna start on my drive way gate, I've had the wood for a couple of years already but due to family and other things never had the time to get into it.

It will probably take me some months to get it all finished but will try to keep this thread updated, I always find it great to follow someone else's work this way, so i'll try to return the favour this way. Altough the level of workmanship will be a lot lower that most regulars in this forum.

Some spec's my driveway is 5m wide, plan is to make a rolling gate wich will be roughly 4,5m long.

The wood I'm using is aphselia doussie wich is supposed to be one of the most stable woods there is.

The wood I have for this build:

2 x 6200mm by 180mm by 60mm

5 x 3000mm by 180mm by 60mm

and a whole lot of boards

this is what i'm trying to achieve

Big sturdy frame all round with verticals every meter, the gaps filled in with thinner boards. Pegged M&T joints for all the big boards the thinner boards will be brad (spelling) nailed in.

The two long beam's are offcourse not perfectly straigth, been messing around with a piece of string and they are roughly 10mm out in the middle. I do have the impression that the two ends are bent and the middle part is straight. Since I only need the gate to be 4500mm long I can cut a piece of off both ends. Only problem is how do I determine wich part of the beam is straight? Any tricks to do this?

Hope this makes sense, English is no my first language so if something sound weird, forgive me

 

[head clansman]

Hi

measure the width of the gate down the length to be cut and stretch the string to that point see how much bow you have then , if any , it might be so little its not worth bothering with, or you might need to run it over a planer , timber of that length will bow / flex any way so whilst constructing the gate allow for it when you cramp it up they will pull it out. hc

 

[EddieJ]

Now that's an ambitious project!

I wonder if it may be worth cutting a hidden grove and T shaped piece of metal along the bottom rail to help ensure that it all stay true. I have no idea if it would work, but may also give you an extra track on which the gate could roll along.

BTW.. Whats the motard?

 

[Chrisp]

That looks great, I have been thinking of a similar project when we find a bigger house, keep us updated with lots of pic's, I wouldn't have guessed that english wasn't your first language, you came across very clear.
Regards Chris.

 

[Mailman14]

HI to Chris_belgium!

Have you got a final drive surface set up in front / behind the gates (whichever way the gate swings over?

If it's not flat and level (fingers crossed), then your idea of having ONE gate may not be feasible with rolling wheel / castor underneath - it'll foul on a ridge / the gate will want to drop into a hole - twisting the gate either way each time you open + close it... Sorry - thought I'd mention it before you made the final items. Good luck either way - your English is as good, if not better, than some "Englishmen" posting on here... :lol:

Running very fast...

 

[Chris_belgium]

Hello, thanks for the replies

@ HClansman, I was thinking something along the same lines, I was just hoping there was maybe some failsafe tradesman trick to do this, apparantly there is not.
Now all that's left is determining how much bow is acceptable on a 4.5m long gate, any toughts?

@Eddie, a 4.5 mtr long metal bar wich is both straigth and won't flex will be massive in size, so don't think that is an option. The motard is a 2002 Husaberg.

@Mailman, it is not a flat driveway, in fact is has a reasonable slope to it. But the gat is not going to swing open but retract backwards perpendicular (hope this is the word I mean ) tot the driveway to the area where the gate will roll on will be reasonably flat.

Have ordered a new saw blade for my cutoff saw from axminster, hopefully it'll arrive before the weekend, then I can get started with some real work!

 

[Mailman14]

Sorry Chris_belgium, hadn't spotted that detail in the pics.

Try laying the beams out, with "hills", move top one along bottom one till you get a 'best match', trim your lengths to size, make the gate panel like that (hills, not valleys), Gravity would induce some straightening along the lengths, rather than inducing more of a bow.

Does that sound right to the rest of the peeps on here? That's what I'd do if I was stuck. (But there again, i'm a rustic fan).

 

[Fecn]

Hi Chris,

I built a large 5M sliding gate for my driveway a couple of years ago, but used a steel frame to support everything. If it's any use to you, the thread is here... https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... p?p=194129

I expect I can dig up the plans I made for the gate if they're any use to you.

Cheers,

Fecn

 

[head clansman]

hi Chris

don't worry about any small bow in that length of wood , when you fit the end stiles and any intermediate with all the mortice's and tenon's glued up and waiting for cramps when you apply pressure with the cramps it will straighten out as the shoulders of all the joints come together . not only that as the gate is 4.5 mm long when made it will flex to a certain amount over it over all length .hc

 

[Chris_belgium]

@ Fecn:Followed that thread at the time you were building. I'm a welder by trade and making a gate like this would be easier for me but really want to give it a shot af making one out of wood first . I prefer the look of an all wood gate to a metal framed one.

@Clansman, what amount of bow would be acceptable for a long beam like this?

Had a fight with sketchup and managed to get some sort of a drawing wich will make it a bit more clear as to what I'm trying to achieve.

The long part will slide to the left offcourse, the smaller part next to the right hand pillar is a fixed part.

Here you can see why the length of the gate is limited to the 4.5mtrs, it can's slide further back otherwise it would cross the access path to my front door.

Drawing of just the gate, wich consists of 4 identicall parts and a smaller part at the left side of the gate, this part will only be visible when open, when closed this will be the part that is inside the left hand pillar, then only the 4identical parts will be visible.

 

[head clansman]

hi Chris

really don't worry about the bow , in your sketch it show two end stiles and three intermediate mullions all with shoulder cut on them so you have to cramp the bottom rail and top rail down to the shoulders on these this will straighten out any bow that you have .hc

 

[Chris_belgium]

hi Chris

really don't worry about the bow , in your sketch it show two end stiles and three intermediate mullions all with shoulder cut on them so you have to cramp the bottom rail and top rail down to the shoulders on these this will straighten out any bow that you have .hc

Have found the parts in the beams with the least bow in it, put the bows in the two beams opposite to each other and then clamped them together, and you are correct, the opposite bows eliminate themselves whem clamped up. Only a 3mm bow remains, wich is ok for me on a gate this long.

 

[head clansman]

Hi Chris

there you go, an other happy customer hc

 

[Chris_belgium]

Got some work done this weekend:

Put the beams on top of each other with the bows in opposite direction, there was quite a difference, but when clamped together, very little bow remained. And the force needed to line them up was very little so I'm not worried.

Cut the two long beams to length, took me two hours for four cuts, moving these pieces of wood around alone is hard work!! Used a CMT fine toothed blade for this and this gave me a near perfect cut, was an expensive blade but worth every penny!

Then started on the mortices in the two long rails. Mortices are 80mm long, 25mm wide and 74 mm deep. I used the wealden tenon cutter for this in combination with a router extension. Have to say that with the router extension my router started sounding a bit stressed.

Just put a piece of offcut next to the beam and used two small nails as endstops, kept about 2mm of the shoulder and then chiselled the mortices square.

Last thing I did this weekend was routing a groove in the top rail wich will house the planks.

Couple of years ago I made a smaller gate, then I also used m&t joints for the planks, this was a nightmare when glueing. This way, I can glue up the complete framework and then put the planks in afterwards.

 

[Chris_belgium]

Update

Cutting the uprights to length, made a simple mdf jig to get every upright to the same length, worked perfect.

mortice and tenons nearly done, only two left.

Tenon cutting method, two pieces of offcut next to the beam and use the fence of the router.

Shoulder cut, have used the wealden tenon cutter for this, wich has two upcut edges and two downcut edges. This bit is supposed to leave a perfect edge bu in reality left a hairy edge. If this is due to the type of wood or the cutter, I don't know.

Chisel out the waste, this cuts the time routing the tenon in half.

Tenon cleaned up with the router

Finished tenon, edges chamfered for ease of installation.

End result, not bad even if I do say so myself , here you can clearly see the 'hairy' edge left by the wealden router cutter, a swipe with some sandpaper will clean this up, but still a bit dissapointed that the cutter did not leave a perfect finish.

Poor man's woodworking bench :twisted: , still having lot's of trouble planing end grain, I got the blade razor sharp, but still a lot of force is needed to get a shaving.

Added a simple fence to my tenon plane to keep everything square, worked quite well.

 

[Chris_belgium]

Have a couple of questions about the dowelled m&t joint I'm planning on using.

The holes I have drilled in the mortices are 11.5mm, should I use dowels wich are the same diameter or should I go for a 12mm dowel to get a really tight fit. Am offcourse worried about wood splitting.

Also read that the hole in the tenon should be drilled slightly offset to the hole in the mortice, again, how much should this be, any guidelines or rules for this?

And thirdly, I'm planning on using some dark wood for the pins to get a nice contrast with the lighter shaded aphselia, any suggestions for a dark wood wich is nice straight grained for making dowels?

Thanks, Christof.

 

[OPJ]

If you've drilled 11.5mm holes then, ideally, you want dowels of the same diameter... You may find that you cannot buy such a thing and will have to attempt to make your own. :?

Yes, the hole in the tenon should be offset by 2mm or 3mm closer to the shoulder, so it pulls the joint up tight. Any less of an offset (1mm) and I've found it doesn't make any difference. Tapering the very end of the dowel (use a sharp chisel or Stanley knife) before you drive it in helps it to locate in the second hole. :wink:

 

[Chris_belgium]

If you've drilled 11.5mm holes then, ideally, you want dowels of the same diameter... You may find that you cannot buy such a thing and will have to attempt to make your own. :?

Yes, the hole in the tenon should be offset by 2mm or 3mm closer to the shoulder, so it pulls the joint up tight. Any less of an offset (1mm) and I've found it doesn't make any difference. Tapering the very end of the dowel (use a sharp chisel or Stanley knife) before you drive it in helps it to locate in the second hole. :wink:

Wow, that's more than I expected, this may sound as an arrogant question but I mean nothing wrong by it. Have you personally done this or did you hear it from someone who heard it from someone else who read it somewher,... you get the picture ? Large tenon in hardwood with an offset like this? Just worried about splitting the wood.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Chems]

Its a very old technique called Draw Boring. I'm sure Olly has done it as he's been studying furniture making for 2 years now.

Lovely progress being made. The wealdon cutter is something I've thought about investing in. Looking at your pictures I'd say the cut was pretty damn good. I would test it on some good hardwood next and see what sort of finish you get I'm sure it would be the perfection you were hoping to see.

 

[OPJ]

Chris, don't worry about asking a question! I am speaking from experience as I used this technique on my workbench, made entirely from beech. 1mm offset didn't pull the joints up enough so, on the next set of joints, I increased it to 2mm and it worked brilliantly! :wink:

I did manage to split some 3"x2" softwood once though, and that was with a 2mm offset... To be honest, it was cheap stuff and I wouldn't expect the same to happen with a half-decent hardwood (tapering the ends slightly really does help!).