Whitehill Panel Raising Head

[pollys13]

Hi all,
I'm getting a Whitehill panel raising head. Not decided weather the 140mm or the 190mm?
The Whitehill profiles that fit in the panel raising head come in an over and under version.

From what I've read is always preferable as a safety consideration to machine the work piece from underneath.
If safety is not the only consideration,what are the pros and cons of using an under or over knife?

I'm getting a Tormek SVP-80 profile knife jig to fit on my Scheppach wet stone grinder to resharpen the Whitehill profile knives and other ones.
The Whitehill 190mm will cut a raised panel edge of 75mm whereas the 140mm will do 45mm.
A £60 difference in cost, I'm assuming the 190mm would be more versatile as can extend edge width of panel to suit from say 45mm up to the 75mm?
Cheers.

 

[RobinBHM]

If you want to use it for house doors, then 45mm is pretty small by the time the flat is hidden in the rebate. For cabinet doors it may be okay.

My understanding is that generally panel raising blocks run above rather than below, but I cant remember the reason! Possibly because if the cutter tries to push the wood away, then running above will result in a more consistent cut. A false fence is important for safety and to avoid dig ins, although there wont be much meat left on the fence.

I used to think running below was a safer option, but that depends whether you are using a power feed or not. In a joinery shop, probably the convention is profiling is run below but rebating runs above (when power fed).

 

[pollys13]

If you want to use it for house doors, then 45mm is pretty small by the time the flat is hidden in the rebate. For cabinet doors it may be okay.

My understanding is that generally panel raising blocks run above rather than below, but I cant remember the reason! Possibly because if the cutter tries to push the wood away, then running above will result in a more consistent cut. A false fence is important for safety and to avoid dig ins, although there wont be much meat left on the fence.

I used to think running below was a safer option, but that depends whether you are using a power feed or not. In a joinery shop, probably the convention is profiling is run below but rebating runs above (when power fed).

Ah, ok thanks for that.

 

[custard]

I'm getting a Whitehill panel raising head. Not decided weather the 140mm or the 190mm?

Get the 190mm and be done with it, otherwise you risk buying twice.

The Whitehill profiles that fit in the panel raising head come in an over and under version.

Most commercial workshops will use a double head set up and machine both faces of the panel at the same time

From what I've read is always preferable as a safety consideration to machine the work piece from underneath.

You need to be a bit careful setting up for panel raising, it's not like one method is safe and the other unsafe, there's plenty that can go wrong with both methods. Basically you've got a big gap in the fence so you'll probably want a false fence, ideally you'll want either the panel (or a sled that it's riding on) to bear against the false fence throughout the cut to prevent the workpiece getting twisted through the fence gap and into the cutters at the start or end of the cut. The other thing to consider is that with panel raising you'll often have a moulded surface underneath that's riding on the spindle table, on smaller panels that can make the workpiece a bit tippy. There are solutions to all of these but you need to be aware of these potential hazards before you spin up the SM.

If you don't have a power feed by the way you should think about getting one, that's what really turns a SM into a lot more than just a big, glorified router table.

Good luck!

 

[pollys13]

I'm getting a Whitehill panel raising head. Not decided weather the 140mm or the 190mm?

Get the 190mm and be done with it, otherwise you risk buying twice.

The Whitehill profiles that fit in the panel raising head come in an over and under version.

Most commercial workshops will use a double head set up and machine both faces of the panel at the same time

From what I've read is always preferable as a safety consideration to machine the work piece from underneath.

You need to be a bit careful setting up for panel raising, it's not like one method is safe and the other unsafe, there's plenty that can go wrong with both methods. Basically you've got a big gap in the fence so you'll probably want a false fence, ideally you'll want either the panel (or a sled that it's riding on) to bear against the false fence throughout the cut to prevent the workpiece getting twisted through the fence gap and into the cutters at the start or end of the cut. The other thing to consider is that with panel raising you'll often have a moulded surface underneath that's riding on the spindle table, on smaller panels that can make the workpiece a bit tippy. There are solutions to all of these but you need to be aware of these potential hazards before you spin up the SM.

If you don't have a power feed by the way you should think about getting one, that's what really turns a SM into a lot more than just a big, glorified router table.

Good luck!

" ideally you'll want either the panel (or a sled that it's riding on) to bear against the false fence throughout the cut to prevent the workpiece getting twisted through the fence gap and into the cutters at the start or end of the cut "
Combination of featherboard, pressure pad, shaw guard, hold down springs?
" The other thing to consider is that with panel raising you'll often have a moulded surface underneath that's riding on the spindle table, on smaller panels that can make the workpiece a bit tippy. There are solutions to all of these but you need to be aware of these potential hazards before you spin up the SM. "
Raising a panel on one side and wanting to raise the other side. The problem of it being a bit tippy had occured to me.How could I overcome this problem?
" Get the 190mm and be done with it, otherwise you risk buying twice. "
Makes sense, will do.
" If you don't have a power feed by the way you should think about getting one, that's what really turns a SM into a lot more than just a big, glorified router table. "
A joiner I know with 50 years experience,hand tools, heavy wood working machiery including spindle moulders. I mentioned to him about getting a power feed.What sold me on the idea were repeated references to it as being a very good fool proof safety thing. The spindle can have a bad reputation as being a dangerous machine, though no more than any other woodworking machine, is dangerous though a complacent and careless attitude. Ray Sutton in his, Spindle Moulder Basics says much the same thing. The joiner I mentioned, thought the expense of a power feed was unnecessary unless one was machining really large mouldings.

" If you don't have a power feed by the way you should think about getting one, that's what really turns a SM into a lot more than just a big, glorified router table. " So what could I do with a power feed?
Thanks.

 

[custard]

Raising a panel on one side and wanting to raise the other side. The problem of it being a bit tippy had occured to me.How could I overcome this problem?

Set up hold downs (feather boards etc) both before and after the cut, so at the moment the workpiece enters or leaves the cutter there is vertical pressure running straight through the workpiece direct to the SM table, also make sure the downward pressure is sufficiently in-board over the workpiece (i.e. not tight against the fence) so that it's not bearing down over the profiled edge that's just been machined.

 

[pollys13]

Raising a panel on one side and wanting to raise the other side. The problem of it being a bit tippy had occured to me.How could I overcome this problem?

Set up hold downs (feather boards etc) both before and after the cut, so at the moment the workpiece enters or leaves the cutter there is vertical pressure running straight through the workpiece direct to the SM table, also make sure the downward pressure is sufficiently in-board over the workpiece (i.e. not tight against the fence) so that it's not bearing down over the profiled edge that's just been machined.

OK cheers for that Custard

 

[martin239]

Hi
When fielding panels you can remove a lot of material. This can make the work piece unstable if you are undercutting particularly with pressure guard or power feed. When over cutting any slight variation in timber thickness will be seen as variation of the moulding and overcutting is always more dangerous as the entire block is above the machine bed. We were taught to undercut if possible (I have City and Guilds in the operation of woodworking machinery). I have a Wealden panel raiser and reverse my spindle to achieve undercutting, setting the power feed a greater distance from the spindle fence. I did have a whitehill panel raiser but was disappointed with it, the profiles are very shallow and the cutting angle is less then their normal knife blocks. I was advised to run the block at the highest speed possible but never achieved a cut as good I did with the now illegal original whitehill cutter block of yesteryears and hand ground cutters. I know your original post was nearly two years ago but thought I would add my experiences for future viewers.

 

[RobinBHM]

Personally I would choose to run the block over the top when using a power feed.