A
Anonymous
Guest
sean_in_limerick":2dhlp6cp said:
Yep 60 1/2 and 5.5 are good choices
I have quite a few LNs (including 60 1/2 and 5.5) and you will not be dissapointed
which LN hand planes?
- Thread starter sean_in_limerick
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Yep 60 1/2 and 5.5 are good choices
I have quite a few LNs (including 60 1/2 and 5.5) and you will not be dissapointed
dchenard
Established Member
sean_in_limerick":2cl6k91i said:
What you're saying here just screams Veritas Low Angle Jack...
You cannot find a more versatile plane on the market, and it masters all the tasks thrown at it. The balance is near perfect. I actually prefer it over a dedicated smoother for smoothing...
Aesthetics is a personal thing, and in my case I don't make it an issue (it's a tool after all...). But price, I do make it an issue, and the Veritas wins hands down in this area...
As for the tote issue, my personal experience has been that over time I don't notice the Veritas tote anymore. In fact, I now get a "funny feeling" in my hand when I grab other plane brands. These totes grow on you, at least they do for me...
Just my 2d,
DC
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Ian wrote:
Listen carefully, I will say this only twice ... eh?
I intimated it, Alf stated it ... The LV LA Jack is the same size and heft as a #5 1/2. The LN version is the same size as a #5. It is lighter and lacks the authority of the LV.
Incidentally, those inbedded "rings" on the sides of the LV are not decoration - they are finger grips ... and they WORK! All-in-all, the LV LA Jack is a superb shooting plane. It is in a different class in this regard to the LN.
You owe it to yourself to try both out and make up your own mind.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Listen carefully, I will say this only twice ... eh?
I intimated it, Alf stated it ... The LV LA Jack is the same size and heft as a #5 1/2. The LN version is the same size as a #5. It is lighter and lacks the authority of the LV.
Incidentally, those inbedded "rings" on the sides of the LV are not decoration - they are finger grips ... and they WORK! All-in-all, the LV LA Jack is a superb shooting plane. It is in a different class in this regard to the LN.
You owe it to yourself to try both out and make up your own mind.
Regards from Perth
Derek
sean_in_limerick
Established Member
maybe a nice long jointer - but if my wife hears about it i will deny all knowledge...
Mirboo
Established Member
Sorry Derek, I have great respect for your opinion and I don't want this to sound like I'm nit picking but your statement above comparing the LN and LV planes contains some errors.
The LV LA Jack weighs in at just under 6lb, has a blade that is 2-1/4" wide and is 15" long (refer LV website).
The LN No. 5-1/2 weighs in at 7lb, has a blade that is 2-3/8" wide and is 14-3/4" long (refer LN website).
The LN No. 5 weighs in at 5-1/2lb, has a blade that is 2" wide and is 14" long (refer LN website).
All of the planes we have discussed in this thread, both LN and LV, are great planes. I think that the question of which one you buy comes down to the functions you want the plane to perform and your personal preferences. As Derek stated above, you need to try the planes out and make up your own mind.
builderchad
Established Member
I have the LV LA Jack, Smoother and Block. I also have the 25, 38 and 50 degree blades - the first two came with the Jack and Smoother respectively and I bought the 50 seperately. What is so wonderful is that these blades are interchangeble between the Jack and Smoother. For the bit of panel flattening and edging I do the Jack shines through and it runs like a dream on the shooting board. But I find that I end up using the smoother more day-to-day because I just love the feel and balance of it - it's a beast. I remember someone saying somewhere that is was a great 'dedicated' smoother but for me it excels at all sorts of jobs.
Paul Kierstead
Established Member
Ok, that's it, I am gonna start making plane weights. I'll make a killing at it I am sure.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Hi Ian
No problem - always important to get the facts right.... you won't mind if I use yours as well?
While I did mention the #5 1/2 - my error for confusing the issue (I probably was thinking of my Stanley #5 1/2) - the comparison was really about the LV verses the LN LA Jacks (and not the #5 1/2).
I would say that the LV LA Jack is both heavier and wider than the LN LA Jack - yes? Still, not all tool purchases are about the absolute best item performance-wise, but also about aesthetics and emotion. And that is why we end up with such interesting discussions!
Regards from Perth
Derek
gcpt
Member
Sean:
I have several LN planes as well as having owned three LV products. The performance of all planes was very comparable.
The key difference for me was one of ergonomics.The tote on the LV was uncomfortable to use and by the end of ten minutes of planing maple with the LV BUS the tendons in my wrists were screaming. Although, outside the return period Rob Lee was gracious enough to allow me to return the planes for a full refund. He is truly a prince!
I am in the LN camp when it comes to bench planes. I have small hands and find the LN totes to be more comfortable to use for exended work - say fifteen minutes or more. Someone with average size hands may not experience my problems. I also prefer the forward angle of the LN totes.
It was suggested that one solution would be to file down the tote on the LV. My answer is that I barely have time to spend woodworking let alone having to adapt a new tool.
One final observation: the LN irons went longer between sharpenings.
I am definitely a home hobbyist woodworker and so my comments should be viewed with that in mind.
cheers,
gordon
I have several LN planes as well as having owned three LV products. The performance of all planes was very comparable.
The key difference for me was one of ergonomics.The tote on the LV was uncomfortable to use and by the end of ten minutes of planing maple with the LV BUS the tendons in my wrists were screaming. Although, outside the return period Rob Lee was gracious enough to allow me to return the planes for a full refund. He is truly a prince!
I am in the LN camp when it comes to bench planes. I have small hands and find the LN totes to be more comfortable to use for exended work - say fifteen minutes or more. Someone with average size hands may not experience my problems. I also prefer the forward angle of the LN totes.
It was suggested that one solution would be to file down the tote on the LV. My answer is that I barely have time to spend woodworking let alone having to adapt a new tool.
One final observation: the LN irons went longer between sharpenings.
I am definitely a home hobbyist woodworker and so my comments should be viewed with that in mind.
cheers,
gordon
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
If I wasn't a reasonably experienced furniture maker that has muddled along with a pretty basic collection of planes since the early 1970's I think, if I were a relatively inexperienced amateur woodworker looking for help on plane selection, I'd find these discussions on hand planes that go round and round in ever decreasing circles of technical minuteae daunting-- perhaps to the point that I'd give up and walk away from what is seemingly a subject too difficult and complex for a person of average intelligence to comprehend.
Sean, if you've got the cash to spare then it seems to me that you can quite safely go ahead and buy your two Lie-Nielsen planes. If you want to save a bit of cash then you could buy a Clifton 5-1/2 instead of the Lie-Nielsen. Both generally are makers of reliably good planes.
Perhaps where you're having the greatest difficulty has nothing to do with the planes you have already. They might just need to be tuned up properly and sharpened correctly. If you have no-one to show you how to do both these jobs that might be where it's all going pear shaped. How you could resolve that problem I'm not sure.
Going back to the title of my response, most of my planes are Stanley Bailey patterns that I bought new as I needed them. I also have a Clifton and a Lie-Nielsen I use, along with a very small selection of other brands, mostly old or antique. I use these common or garden and much derided Stanley Bailey planes without problems on a daily basis.
They took a bit of fiddling with to get them set up but they're fine. Over the years I've shown scores of new woodworkers how to set up, sharpen, and use their planes properly. Mostly those new users bought cheap'ish Stanley Baileys with the rather unpleasant plastic handles but, essentially, they work, and work well.
Hopefully you can find someone in your area that can show you the basics of plane fettling, blade sharpening and plane use to get you going in the right direction. Slainte.
Sean, if you've got the cash to spare then it seems to me that you can quite safely go ahead and buy your two Lie-Nielsen planes. If you want to save a bit of cash then you could buy a Clifton 5-1/2 instead of the Lie-Nielsen. Both generally are makers of reliably good planes.
Perhaps where you're having the greatest difficulty has nothing to do with the planes you have already. They might just need to be tuned up properly and sharpened correctly. If you have no-one to show you how to do both these jobs that might be where it's all going pear shaped. How you could resolve that problem I'm not sure.
Going back to the title of my response, most of my planes are Stanley Bailey patterns that I bought new as I needed them. I also have a Clifton and a Lie-Nielsen I use, along with a very small selection of other brands, mostly old or antique. I use these common or garden and much derided Stanley Bailey planes without problems on a daily basis.
They took a bit of fiddling with to get them set up but they're fine. Over the years I've shown scores of new woodworkers how to set up, sharpen, and use their planes properly. Mostly those new users bought cheap'ish Stanley Baileys with the rather unpleasant plastic handles but, essentially, they work, and work well.
Hopefully you can find someone in your area that can show you the basics of plane fettling, blade sharpening and plane use to get you going in the right direction. Slainte.
At the end of the day, couldn't agree more... Until I learned to sharpen properly, my relationship with planes was one of hatred. My favourite plane remains my 'bog standard' 80s manufactured Stanley Bailey pattern (not bedrock) number 7. I replaced the plastic handles with rosewood purely out of a sense of amusement, and did go for a Hock blade. Interestingly, given the role of a jointer, and the size of the blade, this is the thinnest blade in my current collection. Despite this, and a non-adjustable, not very fine mouth, this 15 year old plane consistently gives me an excellent finish on anything I chuck at it. Admittedly it's fettled and personalised, but it remains a favourite.
That said, I also have LNs, LVs, HNT Gordons, antique woodies, and a Clifton smoother. I enjoy using them all, and wouldn't 'disrespect' any of them. But, in essence, for anything other than the most extreme of woods at the most extreme end of price range, and where, for whatever reason, sanding is regarded as inappropriate, non of them are significantly 'better' than my number 7 and my clifton bladed number 5 Stanley jack...
Doesn't stop me enjoying buying the better finished tools, and where the Stanleys are unavailable for particular tasks (eg side rebate planes), I'm sometimes forced to. But, in the end, I agree: get any respectable tool, and learn how to use it. On the other hand, if you're a 'collector', why not enjoy some beautiful examples of the planemaker's art?
Ed451
Established Member
Sean,
I own those very two planes, and I'm very happy with them. This choice is Cosman-approved, too (he sold me mine).
Ed
I own those very two planes, and I'm very happy with them. This choice is Cosman-approved, too (he sold me mine).
Ed
engineer one
Established Member
i've stayed away from this thread, because more experienced hands than mine have contributer mightily, but at this end i thought a couple of thoughts would be relevant.
i it still seems to come back to sharpening, and the amount of work you have to do. realistically a brand new stanley or record/irwin will need
a large amount of time/ work on the sole of the plane, and the chip breaker, whilst it is almost certain you should replace the plastic handles, and put in a new blade, be it clifton or japanese. so to the cost of buying one new, you need to add your time to get it flat, plus another 30 or so quid for the handles and the blades.
if you buy the LN or LV or Clifton, then in principal, you will have items that really only need the blade fettling to get good performance.
all three will have blades delivered that with a little honing can be
made to cut well and provide the proverbial "fresh air" shavings
and you do not often have to spend any time flattening the soles
nor changing the handles.
you will need different planes for different things you do, so although you are stumbling down the rocky path, you should also take account of the
view that for some jobs a fettled stanley or record may well be the right
tool for the job.
what i would say is that if you have a couple of LN's you have something to judge both your planes and your work standards against, and that makes them really valuable.
here endeth the lesson from a man who has only one clifton, but
four LV and the same number of LN, plus six rather nice new
Nooitgedagt wooden bodies that really amaze me. Dave how does that one
work????
paul :wink:
i it still seems to come back to sharpening, and the amount of work you have to do. realistically a brand new stanley or record/irwin will need
a large amount of time/ work on the sole of the plane, and the chip breaker, whilst it is almost certain you should replace the plastic handles, and put in a new blade, be it clifton or japanese. so to the cost of buying one new, you need to add your time to get it flat, plus another 30 or so quid for the handles and the blades.
if you buy the LN or LV or Clifton, then in principal, you will have items that really only need the blade fettling to get good performance.
all three will have blades delivered that with a little honing can be
made to cut well and provide the proverbial "fresh air" shavings
and you do not often have to spend any time flattening the soles
nor changing the handles.
you will need different planes for different things you do, so although you are stumbling down the rocky path, you should also take account of the
view that for some jobs a fettled stanley or record may well be the right
tool for the job.
what i would say is that if you have a couple of LN's you have something to judge both your planes and your work standards against, and that makes them really valuable.
here endeth the lesson from a man who has only one clifton, but
four LV and the same number of LN, plus six rather nice new
Nooitgedagt wooden bodies that really amaze me. Dave how does that one
work????
paul :wink:
DaveL
Established Member
Paul,
How did you know that I had wandered out to the shop with the camera to take a picture of the plane you sent? 8-[
Well this is the wooden delight, I was looking to buy a shoulder plane, I had been using an old #78 to clean up rebates. I need look no more, Paul kindly sent this along absolutely ready to use straight from the Jiffy bag! 8) I only set the blade height by resting the plane on a sheet of paper and then gently tapping the wedge.
I have used it to clean rebates on oak strips I made to join the two sections of laminate floor that is now down in the shop.
This is an end from one of the bits I made to span the 18' width of my shop. I could have used the dado head but though better of converting all of the 'waste' in to sawdust, so I did two passes on the table saw and saved the nice oak battens for another day. I then cleaned the rebates with the Nooitgedagt, it made light work of cutting the oak. Paul had sharpened the iron and it showed.
It has even drawn admiring comments from #2 son and he is not in to tools or woodwork, but he thought the plane looked interesting, maybe there is hope for him yet. :wink:
I have a small but growing collection of hand planes, this is the first new woodie I have used. I spent some time searching for them on the net and Paul then told me the company had been bought out and the name dropped. If I see any more tool made by then I will give them serious thought, because this feels just right in the hand and works like a dream. \/
Many thanks to Paul for his kind gift. 8)
How did you know that I had wandered out to the shop with the camera to take a picture of the plane you sent? 8-[
Well this is the wooden delight, I was looking to buy a shoulder plane, I had been using an old #78 to clean up rebates. I need look no more, Paul kindly sent this along absolutely ready to use straight from the Jiffy bag! 8) I only set the blade height by resting the plane on a sheet of paper and then gently tapping the wedge.
I have used it to clean rebates on oak strips I made to join the two sections of laminate floor that is now down in the shop.
This is an end from one of the bits I made to span the 18' width of my shop. I could have used the dado head but though better of converting all of the 'waste' in to sawdust, so I did two passes on the table saw and saved the nice oak battens for another day. I then cleaned the rebates with the Nooitgedagt, it made light work of cutting the oak. Paul had sharpened the iron and it showed.
It has even drawn admiring comments from #2 son and he is not in to tools or woodwork, but he thought the plane looked interesting, maybe there is hope for him yet. :wink:
I have a small but growing collection of hand planes, this is the first new woodie I have used. I spent some time searching for them on the net and Paul then told me the company had been bought out and the name dropped. If I see any more tool made by then I will give them serious thought, because this feels just right in the hand and works like a dream. \
/ Many thanks to Paul for his kind gift. 8)
engineer one
Established Member
oh dave now i am in trouble, a working plane, and reasonably
sharpened too. looks good news.
i hope to travel a bit over the small pond soon, so will look out for
any redundant stock.
what did you think of the chisel???
paul :wink:
sharpened too. looks good news.
i hope to travel a bit over the small pond soon, so will look out for
any redundant stock.
what did you think of the chisel???
paul :wink:
sean_in_limerick
Established Member
the planes arrived and they look wonderful but i i have been too busy shifting top-soil to enjoy them! [-(
