Found UJK parf mkII & INCRA joinery (super) system

[BradyS]

Good day. I know neither of the two don't really sell. Still, I'm about to buy them and if, by any chance, someone here thinks of selling, we can do each other a favor.
I am looking for the parf mk2 system from UJK. This is pretty straightforward.
Next comes the metric version of the INCRA super system - LS positioner (LS25 preferably) and wonder fence, shop stop, right angle fixture, templates, etc. A TS-LS system is on the table as well from my point of view. I'm also open to other offers for parts of the system.

If interested, please pm me.
Happy Easter!

Brad

 

[BradyS]

I know neither of the two don't really sell.

I mean that they both are a keeper.

 

[TRITON]

You're in luck. Ax have a sale on and its 50 quid of the standard Parf.
https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-...minder+-+April+2023+20230418Manual+-+Targeted
Edit- I see you are in Romania*. But no reason not to contact the company and se if they will send it. They might, though postage might be a bit extra.

*I was in your lovely country in 1992 working for a charity. Right up north in Siret, Suceava county.

 

[BradyS]

You're in luck. Ax have a sale on and its 50 quid of the standard Parf.
https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-...minder+-+April+2023+20230418Manual+-+Targeted
Edit- I see you are in Romania*. But no reason not to contact the company and se if they will send it. They might, though postage might be a bit extra.

*I was in your lovely country in 1992 working for a charity. Right up north in Siret, Suceava county.

A lot has changed since then but the country still is lovely. I'm from the central Romania, the heart of Transylvania.

Thank you, I have seen this but I'm a little unsure. It's the parf mk1 on discount. I read that it can be squishy. Of course some opinions from people who actually used it would be more than welcome.

 

[llywmog]

You're in luck. Ax have a sale on and its 50 quid of the standard Parf.
https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-...minder+-+April+2023+20230418Manual+-+Targeted
Edit- I see you are in Romania*. But no reason not to contact the company and se if they will send it. They might, though postage might be a bit extra.

*I was in your lovely country in 1992 working for a charity. Right up north in Siret, Suceava county.

If they won't send it to Romania, check their eBay store to see if you can buy it from there

 

[BradyS]

If they won't send it to Romania, check their eBay store to see if you can buy it from there

They are sending to Romania. The problem, as I stated above, is parf guide mk1 (which is 50 quid off) versus the mk2.

I could use some real life experience if anybody here used the mk1. I understood it can be flimsy at times when drilling the 3 mm holes. And I only have a very powerful dewalt hand drill, a bit overkill for the tiny holes.

 

[Spectric]

That deal might be £50 off but personally I would buy the mark 2 system because for me the fact it has 6mm holes in the rulers to accept the 3mm drilling guide that locates in the ruler and will prevent any wear on the rulers so maintaining precision. The mark 2 also can do offset holes, not just at 96mm which for some jobs is useful.

 

[BradyS]

That deal might be £50 off but personally I would buy the mark 2 system because for me the fact it has 6mm holes in the rulers to accept the 3mm drilling guide that locates in the ruler and will prevent any wear on the rulers so maintaining precision. The mark 2 also can do offset holes, not just at 96mm which for some jobs is useful.

That's how I see it as well. And since there's no way to upgrade from mk1 to mk2 I believe the mk1 is not for me.
One more question: do I need to buy a reamer (mine will be an mdf top) or I don't need it immediately, only after some use.

 

[MikeK]

That's how I see it as well. And since there's no way to upgrade from mk1 to mk2 I believe the mk1 is not for me.
One more question: do I need to buy a reamer (mine will be an mdf top) or I don't need it immediately, only after some use.

Unless you treat the MDF with sealer or some other type of coating, you won't need the reamer. When I finished my Valchromat top, some of the hard wax oil went down the dog holes and had to be reamed out a few days later.

The lesson learned from making my top with the MK2 version is to use a backer board when boring the 20mm holes. About half of the holes had breakout on the bottom of the board, which means I can't flip it over and use the other side after I'm done abusing the top.

 

[BradyS]

Unless you treat the MDF with sealer or some other type of coating, you won't need the reamer. When I finished my Valchromat top, some of the hard wax oil went down the dog holes and had to be reamed out a few days later.

The lesson learned from making my top with the MK2 version is to use a backer board when boring the 20mm holes. About half of the holes had breakout on the bottom of the board, which means I can't flip it over and use the other side after I'm done abusing the top.

Thanks a lot for the advice. My first table will be an assembly table with router on one end. So the top is to be fixed. I'm trying to aim for a Valchromat top layer and a regular mdf under it for increased strength (circa 2000x1000 mm table). But I can use a backer when boring.
I'll probably wax it too, but before drilling the holes. I don't think it intereferes with the parf guide.

 

[Sideways]

I bought the parf system when it first came out and it works fine for me.
The current promotion puts what is now called the Mk1 on sale for essentially £100, about what I paid for it a few years ago.
No doubt the mk2 version has some improvements but it's double the price for a marginal improvement in features. The Mk1 on promotion I would say is far better value.
In use, take your time, and clamp both the rules and the orange part down to the benchtop werever you can - drilling the essential holes around the edges - to aid in boring the dog holes perpendicular to the surface and in position. This would apply to mk1 and mk2 alike. Lightweight quick grip clamps are entirely good enough for that. You are making sure that the rules don't move as you go from hole to hole and the jig doesn't tilt through leverage if you don't keep the drill upright.

There's a risk with any power drill because of the weight of the handle that you will not maintain it perpendicular to the surface. If you don't, then you rely on the jig to do all the work in keeping you square which makes it work harder than it would if you pay more attention. I used a 10.8V/12V cordless with my mk1 and I'm sure this was better than if I'd used the big 18V drill.

Oh, in use, the only frustration I noticed was the wood shavings that emerge as you drill the dog holes are wide spirals and don't clear easily from under the orange jig. If does work best in conjunction with a hoover or an airline to blow the shavings out as you bore each hole. The plastic extraction thing wasn't included when the Parf first came out. It was a response to this universal issue. I don't know how it works but I wouldn't want anything that clips onto the orange jig as that adds a risk that the jig might be moved in some way by an attached hose. Just place the hoover nozzle close by and hold it there with an improvised sandbag.

 

[MikeK]

Thanks a lot for the advice. My first table will be an assembly table with router on one end. So the top is to be fixed. I'm trying to aim for a Valchromat top layer and a regular mdf under it for increased strength (circa 2000x1000 mm table). But I can use a backer when boring.
I'll probably wax it too, but before drilling the holes. I don't think it intereferes with the parf guide.

Here is the build thread for my 2000x1000mm assembly table using 19mm Valchromat and aluminum extrusion. I think there are enough cross beams that adequately support the table top.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/mft-style-workbench.126832/
Depending on the overall thickness of your combined Valchromat and MDF layers, you might not be able to use any L-clamps. I have a few Bessey clamps that I can't use on my table top because the bend radius of the clamp is too small. The Festool clamps work great, but they were designed to work with this type of table. Another option is to augment the dog holes with the MicroJig dovetail clamp system.

Finishing the surface before drilling the holes should not affect the performance of the Parf Guide.

If it weren't for the uncertainty of the mail system between Germany and Romania, I would let you borrow my Parf MK2 system. I mailed a set of table saw blades that I didn't need to a woodworker in Timișoara as a gift, and the package never arrived. Even though the package had tracking, it disappeared as soon as it was handed over to the Romanian system.

 

[ScaredyCat]

They are sending to Romania. The problem, as I stated above, is parf guide mk1 (which is 50 quid off) versus the mk2.

I could use some real life experience if anybody here used the mk1. I understood it can be flimsy at times when drilling the 3 mm holes. And I only have a very powerful dewalt hand drill, a bit overkill for the tiny holes.

Parf guide Mk 1 is fine. Not sure who is complaining about it being flimsy. Presumably your Dewalt increases power depending on how much you pull the trigger, given my cheap Ryobi one does it. I don't see the MK II being hugely different with the rulers. I have a MK 1 it's fine.

 

[BradyS]

Parf guide Mk 1 is fine. Not sure who is complaining about it being flimsy. Presumably your Dewalt increases power depending on how much you pull the trigger, given my cheap Ryobi one does it. I don't see the MK II being hugely different with the rulers. I have a MK 1 it's fine.

I do thank you for sharing your hands on experience.
Yes, the dewalt does that. The problem is that it's heavy. Some users said they had issues with heavy drills. Hence my questions.

 

[Spectric]

that emerge as you drill the dog holes are wide spirals and don't clear easily from under the orange jig.

I have found not using that extract housing and just having the hoover nozzle close works fine, with the housing those largish bits from the cut seem to just hold hands and bridge the exit so clog up.

The lesson learned from making my top with the MK2 version is to use a backer board when boring the 20mm holes. About half of the holes had breakout on the bottom of the board, which means I can't flip it over and use the other side after I'm done abusing the top.

That is interesting, I have not had that issue but maybe it could be something to do with the speed you are drilling them out as I believe you probably hold the current record. The boring bit only has a spike for guidance and is not a drill so if you back the hole then that spike will need some effort to bore a clearance hole for itself, what I find is a disk of material remains stuck on the end of the boring drill where the edge cutters have made a clean exit.

 

[MikeK]

That is interesting, I have not had that issue but maybe it could be something to do with the speed you are drilling them out as I believe you probably hold the current record. The boring bit only has a spike for guidance and is not a drill so if you back the hole then that spike will need some effort to bore a clearance hole for itself, what I find is a disk of material remains stuck on the end of the boring drill where the edge cutters have made a clean exit.

I made some test holes in a scrap piece of MDF, and the backer board does not move in relation to the MDF. The 3mm pilot bit makes a hole in the backer board as well, so the spike has a place to go when as the spurs cut through the MDF.

 

[Spectric]

I see, you drill the pilot holes into the backer. So could it be your record breaking speed of doing these holes !

 

[MikeK]

I see, you drill the pilot holes into the backer. So could it be your record breaking speed of doing these holes !

I think it's my manly essence.

 

[BradyS]

Apologies for the late reply.

Here is the build thread for my 2000x1000mm assembly table

I have already seen your masterpiece of a table. I think there are enough cross beams there to adequately support a cnc machine, not just the table top.
Unfortunately, as far as I know the price of the cnc profiles is very high nowdays. So the beams would probably cost double today, even more. If I had that money I'd buy clamps, a plethora of beautiful clamps.

you might not be able to use any L-clamps

I don't plan to use L-clamps. As I indirectly suggested above, I don't have L-clamps. But humor aside and practically speaking, my intended setup will include a variety of shop bought and self made bench dogs and various dog clamps. Yet the MicroJig dovetail clamp system is something I plan to include, I find it pretty useful and handy.

If it weren't for the uncertainty of the mail system between Germany and Romania, I would let you borrow my Parf MK2 system. I mailed a set of table saw blades that I didn't need to a woodworker in Timișoara as a gift, and the package never arrived. Even though the package had tracking, it disappeared as soon as it was handed over to the Romanian system.

You are very kind and I appreciate you saying that. The postal system in Romania is (like) a black hole. Things enter it but it's completely unsure if they will ever be seen again. If I buy something from amazon us/uk it takes 2-3-4 days to reach Romania, then another 10 days to reach me. If I purchase from China about 2/3 of the shipping time is somewhere in our postal system. And then there's the issue with missing items. I heard that in the more civilised countries occasionally there are cases where "missing" packages get taken by postal employees. Well, here the "missing" packages actually get lost if you can believe that. We don'tlive in wilderness, the unfortunate truth is that the system is rotten. The postal system is severely underemployed, many of the actual employees are people who used to be very dedicated to their jobs but who literarly get abused due to having to compensate for the lack of personnel. Eventually either they loose interest or they get completely overwhelmed. From here, the mistakes are imminent. Lately it seems there is an improvement in the system but too early to tell.
Nevertheless, our country has a very well organized courier system. From what I've heard in countries like the UK or Germany you have most of the shipping handled by Royal Mail or Deutsche Post/DHL. Some of the courier shipping companies that operate in Romania are international, like GLS, DPD, Fedex, DHL. I have never heard of similar issues with them.

 

[BradyS]

I thank you all for your input.
In respect of the parf guide system, I decided to go with the mk2 as not only that I found it available, but for a very good price. It seems Dictum GmbH still has stock and I found it for the equivalent of 180 GBP. Buying it from Axminster would have been about 110-120. I decided to pay the difference for having the ability to easily offset holes, plus the improvements brought by mark 2.