Tyzack & Turner backsaw

[condeesteso]

I thought this may be of interest, a recent acquisition:

It's 14", 12 tpi, and was surprisingly quite sharp when it arrived. Elsewhere Mignal mentions he has one, and comments on the weight. This one is a shade under a kilo, say 2lb. For comparison here it is alongside the Two Lawyers carcass saw (12" 14tpi) which weighs approx 400g:

I know the Turners saws covered quite a long period but I'm not sure when from. I have an ad dated 1947 with Tyzack apologising for shortage of stock and promising availability soon. And Cheshire got 2 new saws as late as the 80s.

The markings are Sheffield Cast Steel; W. Tyzack Sons & Turner Nonpareil + logo. The main screw motif is Trade Mark Nonpareil.

Just out of interest, anyone good at dating these??

I'm sure it's a very good saw, handles nicely once I get used to the weight, tracks very well - could do with getting really sharp.
Pedder knows his saws, and I note his own blog (Old Ladies) features a saw very like mine as the masthead:

I noted Swagman (new dt backsaw) mentioning the naming of saws (sash, carcass etc) - a bit like planes maybe, the name gives a guide to what to expect but shouldn't limit your idea of what it might be used for. Someone here once said a No3 (plane) is a jointer if you make boxes all day. I have at least one jack tuned as a smoother... enough about planes.

I'll keep an eye out for more Tyzack & Turner - impressed with this one. It's a maker on my list along with early S&J (probably broadly underrated I suspect).

Any more Tyzack & Turner out there - show'n'tell.

p.s. re Cast Steel, How, why? I'm no sawmaker but I would have hot rolled it, anneal maybe, surface grind and heat treat. Don't think that casting would have crossed my mind. I guess it is the steel source, a bit like Record's crucible cast steel irons.

 

[Harbo]

I've got a couple that came down from the family.
They also have Frederick Wiley of Leeds stamped on them ( from whence I hail)
Earlier than yours probably 1900's - the rivets are flush?

 

[Corneel]

For some good pointers on the date I would try at backsaw.net. With these screws I guess it's not terribly old. Somewhere before WW2 or so.

14" is a very usefull size. When you think it is sharp now, you should see how it performs freshly sharpened. I had one like that too, but when I learned how to sharpen saws, it was as if I got a new one.

Cast steel is about the process how they made the steel. It is not anything like cast iron. After making the cast steel it was indeed hot rolled and grinded.

 

[MIGNAL]

This is the one that I've recently acquired, along with the R. Groves dovetail saw. Both unrestored. Very similar to Harbo's with flush/split saw nuts. Pre WWII is probably about right.
I find the Groves fits my hand very nicely. Somehow it just feels right, such that I've started to make a copy and template of the Groves handle.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Here's a link to the 1921 Tyzack, Sons and Turner Saw Catalogue - http://www.tyzack.net/Saws.pdf

Interestingly, it shows availability of both flat and raised brass sawscrews, which fits with known information that the change from flat to raised happened about 1920.

Edit to add - here's a history of the firm - http://www.tilthammer.com/bio/tyzac.html - which made quite a wide range of products, and remained in family ownership until 1989, when it was bought out by the management. Sadly, it only lasted a couple of years until the Receiver was called in.

On 'cast steel' - Corneel is quite right. The original steel used for tool and cutlery making was made by packing wrought iron bars (wrought iron contains virually no carbon) in charcoal and heating them for about a week to make 'cementation steel'. This was carbon-rich at the surface, but relatively carbon poor at the centre, so to get a more homogenous steel, it was then hammered, folded and hammered again to make 'shear steel'. If the process was carried out twice, it became 'double shear steel'. Good enough for things like sheep shears and most edge tools, but not for smaller items needing consistent steel like clock springs. A clockmaker by the name of Benjamin Hunstman solved the problem in 1740 by placing broken-up cementation steel in a small crucible, and then melting the steel to make a much more homogenous metal, which was then cast into a small ingot. The ingot was subsequently worked into bar, sheet or whatever was needed by rolling or forging. This process of melting cementation steel became the backbone of the Sheffield steel, tool and cutlery industry until the advent of alloy steels and small electric melting furnaces around the time of WW1. Crucible steelmaking pretty much died out after WW2, the last being made in about the mid 1960s.

 

[condeesteso]

Excelllent info, many thanks. The 1921 catalogue shows a huge range, and I note the extensive array of panel saws from 10" or 12" right up to 36". I don't really see any below about 20" around these days, but the shorter sizes would be great I think.
I notice the option of London Spring steel also (premium above cast steel) and I have seen Disston use that also.
What puzzles me about Tyzack is no mention in the tilt hammer summary of a shop on Old Street (though I accept TH is really about Sheffield). I had guessed that came about around the peak of furniture-making in Shoreditch (late 18thC onward I believe) and as far as I knew the store sold makers' branded tools with a secondary Tyzack brand on them.
I shall explore tilt hammer more as the old Sheffield makers are of particular interest to me, I notice mention of Osborn for example - I have a particluarly fine Osborn paring chisel.
btw, you will notice my saw is quite shiny. I got it from Dawn, and I suspect Dawn is a polisher. No worries, another 50 years or so it'll get its patina back.

oh yes, and it's definitely an elephant. Maybe the Nonpareil was adopted following family members touring Europe to grow the business.