Trees, council and legal stuff

[Andyb350z]

Hi guys, hope somebody may be able to help as google only gives me US based answers

my driveway is lined which HUGE trees that border a council field, which also joins to a neghibours house (a horrible one i may add) who has wanted the trees taking down for a while, the trees are stunning and i do not want them gone. During the winds the other nights, part of the tree has snapped, and hit her car causing damage to the roof etc.

The council were out this morning claiming they were going to cut down the remainder of the tree which infurated me, one because the trees are stunning, two, there a extra layer of security for my property before my fence and three she is getting her way.

I wanted to ask, as google gives me diffrent answers with regards to ownership of the tree, its a act of god etc... if the tree turns out to be in my property, am i liable for the damage to her car ?

I have been trying to find out with the council for about 6 months wether the trees lay in my land boundry or not, im yet to get a answer. The tree surgeon has said he will try find out before making and more decisions.

any advice regarding liability would be greatly appreciated !

and yes.... i stole all the logs off what they did cut down !!!

 

[marcros]

get a TPO slapped on them. That should slow things down a bit, although could be a pain if you ever want to have them removed. We have 3 in our garden, one of which we would like to have pollarded but permission has been denied, so I have some idea of how they can cause issues from the other side of the coin.

Have you not got a boundary line on the deeds of the house?

 

[Glynne]

If you don't have the deeds yourself, go onto the Land Registry site and for a very minimal fee, you should be able to see the extent of your property. HMLR have been transferring all records on-line and their view is the definitive one.

 

[AndyT]

I don't know the detail of this stuff, but I am interested in on-line maps. There is a map at http://www.magic.gov.uk which shows lots of statutory schemes that apply to land - Sites of Scientific Interest etc - including several tree related schemes such as areas where grants have been given to grow trees or where licences are needed to fell them. (I don't think it shows individual TPOs.)

I reckon it's worth a look to see if these trees are in any special category. You can zoom into large scale maps showing individual properties and their boundaries.

 

[Andyb350z]

yes i do indeed have the deeds and boundries, but they only show lines and not trees ! my argument was if you take a piece of strong and stick it on the edge of my neighbours wall, and the edge of my gatepost, there my trees, but the registry does not show this and the council treat them as there own, the surgeon this morning said he didnt feel they were the councils and never had, but getting any kind of help of confirmation from our conuncil is impossible, i would like to fence them in, but i would imagine others might complain.... can of worms !

 

[marcros]

in a way, it would be to your advantage to persuade the council that they are theirs but they should not be felled unless as a last resort (ie they are dangerous). That way any maintenance is their cost. Tree maintenance isnt cheap on big trees, and they do have a finite life.

I suspect that the council dont have any more idea than you do- they may have a surveyor available to find out, however.

What type of trees are they?

 

[Harbo]

Have you tried your Parish Council - our village one is very hot on preserving trees?
If it's not clear on your deeds - claim them and get a TPO on them asap?
Also have a go at setting out your boundaries from recognisable features - you can sight things in with ranging rods.
Let others prove they are not yours.

Rod

 

[wizard]

It’s simple really what is on your side of the fence is yours and what is on the other side is sort of yours but your neighbour has the right to cut it down id he returns the wood to you.

 

[Glynne]

I'm not an expert on this but did work with (not for) HMLR for a while. As the name implies, HMLR are about who owns the land and property on it. Normally trees, vegetation etc. will not be shown because you can obviously cut it down or grow new stuff. What HMLR and especially your deeds should show whether their are any other claims to your land. So for example, you might own all of your land but not have the mineral rights over it. I own my property outright but their are restrictions about the type of animals I can have and also about running a business (other than having an office).
If your deeds do not specify anything about trees or other restrictions then you have a reasonable case to argue that anything within your land boundaries belongs to you.
TPOs obviously can affect this but it is for the council to prove that one exists or that the trees pose a H&S risk before they can legally enter your property.
As Mark says, it could be an advantage if they are not yours but some of the council maintenance around my neck of the woods is essentially pruning back to the trunk and nothing less. With all the rain about, having large trees is not a bad idea!

 

[RogerS]

Is there a fence? Which side of the fence are the trees? If not on your side then I suspect you might have difficulty in convincing anyone that the trees are on your land. This is always the problem when things lie on or close to the boundary. The level of detail that the maps go down to aren't sufficiently to a small enough scale in my experience to show definitively where the boundary goes. ...ie to within the metre within which a tree might be.

I'd go with the TPO.

 

[Hivenhoe]

A few pics might help determine whose land they're on and who's responsible for their maintenance and any insurance claims ! Be careful you don't land yourself with some large bills!
Seek proper legal help, Speak to the councils conservation officer and maybe your insurance provider to see what they are prepared to cover?

 

[Andyb350z]

I have attached a jpeg showing my house and land in red, its the neighbour to the right who's car has been damaged, the trees on this picture show the trees futher to the right i must admit, but if you get a strong line from the edge of her wall, to the end of my gate post, the tree roots would lay within my property. but as you can see its going to be hard to get a answer here.

The bloke says they will be cutting it down tomorrow if its deemed dangerous so i dont feel i would have time to action a TPO so it had effect in time, especially it been friday too !

 

[Hivenhoe]

Do you have any at ground level? Roots spread out so not a real indicator.
As I understand you need a license/permission to fell trees over a certain girth except garden trees and those which pose a danger, however a quick call to the conservation officer or even your Councillor may get a temporary stay of execution!

 

[marcros]

if they are deemed "dangerous" by a competent person- ie a professional tree surgeon, you are probably on a hiding to nothing. Even with the TPO, dangerousness probably over rules it.

 

[Mr_P]

If you are planning on moving ever again I'd be careful inviting tp officers around. A future buyer might be put off by the dark back garden and if they all have preservation orders slapped on them they will be unable to remedy the problem and it could seriously affect your house value.

 

[Andyb350z]

anyone any ideas about her car and liability, if they come back and deem them my trees, am i liable for damage to her car ? have a feeling now i have said this to the council there going to be my tree and problem !

 

[RogerS]

anyone any ideas about her car and liability, if they come back and deem them my trees, am i liable for damage to her car ? have a feeling now i have said this to the council there going to be my tree and problem !

Any use? http://www.aviva.co.uk/risksolutions/do ... _trees.pdf

Google is your friend

Use these terms all together

falling tree branch damage liability car

 

[Harbo]

It's generally classed as an Act of God but if the trees are yours and you were aware that the trees were in a dangerous condition then you could be liable for damages?
My daughter's neighbour's fence blew onto her car - it had to be claimed under my daughters car insurance.

 

[Harbo]

Reading your OP again you suggest the trees are outside your fence?
It's the position of the main trunk that is the deciding factor - not roots or canopy. If the trunk is on your land then you own the tree. Adjoining landowners are entitled to trim vertically up from their boundary but you own the timber.
If the trunk is in the middle of your bdy then you both own it - then you cannot touch it without each party's approval.

Rod

 

[MMUK]

If I've got this right, the woman next door is claiming it's dangerous because a branch has fallen off and damaged her car?

Has she been along the main roads and motorways in the last few weeks? There's branches everywhere! Does she intend to complain about all of those too? :roll: The way the weather has been recently most trees could be classed as "dangerous" by an over-zealous clerk.

Unless the tree can be proved to be rotten or unstable and in danger of falling, I can't see any justification for removing it.