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HDC83

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Hi @HDC83

Am I correct that you are using Makita 1.5 rails but using the Metabo rails for 3 metres because they connect better? I suppose there was never going to be any standardisation with the OEM tracks, makes a lot of engineering / user sense but not marketing as it seems the track dictates the saw to some extent unless you take a saw to it like HDC83.
Yes that right I have 3 Metabo rails 1.6, 1.4, 1.1 and 2 connectors so I can connect them together in different configurations, I have been using these for near a year there nice to use but no one is making any accessories for them. Need another rail for my mft and to get one for rail square so went for Makita.
Now think I’m selling the Metabo rails for some tso connectors and extra rails and get 3m rail for workshop.
 

HDC83

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I have a set of the TSO connectors, picked them up a while back for a little over £50 so not as eye watering at the time. They work incredibly well and would happily replace them if I needed to.
Nice DIY parallel guides, have to admit I toyed with making my own from alloy but at the time I was knee deep in work so just pushed the button and picked up a pair of Festool's with the VL extensions. They could be longer and I'm surprised they don't offer another accessory to the set of longer rails.
The price is not bad for the consistency that it brings to the rail so thats my mind up with ordering tso connectors
Thanks
 

Spectric

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I will have to look into tracks in more detail, read that someone wanted the Makita saw but purchased the bosch because the rail connectors were much better, so this suggest the metabo and Bosch rails are better than Makita. A guide rail should be a simple extrusion, the OEM's have done a worse job than in the days of the VHS and Beta max arguments.
 

Spectric

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Looks like three groups of tracks, 1) Bosch/Maefell 2) Makita/Festool/Triton/Erbauer 3) Dewalt all on it's own

Well that is the choice you get from Benchdogs.
 

HDC83

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Bosch/Mafell/Metabo rails all have a common problem with them the saw hangs over the left edge not allowing to use tall dogs in a mft
 

MarkAW

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Stupid question. How does a rail square benefit over a normal square apart from attachment to the track?
 

Spectric

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Bosch/Mafell/Metabo rails all have a common problem with them the saw hangs over the left edge not allowing to use tall dogs in a mft
Another plus for the rail square, but then you can get shorter dogs.

Stupid question. How does a rail square benefit over a normal square apart from attachment to the track?
Because it attaches to the track at 90° and the saw sits on the track so you can now cut accurate sheet goods including full sheets if you your rails / tracks are long enough. So as you produce panels that are square or rectabgulat and not trapezoidal. But go back thirty odd years and any good chippy would do just the same using a decent handsaw but then they were much better built for using manual tools, powertools and mechanisation have led to devolution in humans stamina.
 

HDC83

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Stupid question. How does a rail square benefit over a normal square apart from attachment to the track?
Valid point. What type of square would you use?
Say speed square out of the 3 I have none are actually square, ok for roofing and 1st fix.
Combination square are just as bad I got new Bacho 3 pack recently are only good for marking gauges, the only square one I have is a Starret that’s about 50 years old that my grandad gave me. Plus the blade is to thin same with try square.
 

MarkAW

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@Spectric
I understand how they work, but not sure of the benefits over aligning the track with any other kind of square

@HDC83
So the benefit is accuracy (as well as convenience of being attached to rail)?
 

HDC83

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Good vid to show problem with Bosch track and mft by John McGrath
Another vid show mk2 Benchdogs square with a repetitive stop added.
I’ve seen Benchdogs will have repetitive stop out soon for the squares. That would be comparable to an mft while out on site.
 

Bristol_Rob

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I think if you use a track saw with paralell guides for repeatability cuts and use a quality mitre saw for short lengths then you have most bases covered (y)
 

Doug B

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Stupid question. How does a rail square benefit over a normal square apart from attachment to the track?
This is my point exactly Mark for the price of some of these track squares you can buy a good quality large engineering square which will give you the same bearing on both board & track if not more & is useful for a myriad of other jobs, this is exactly what I do
 

Spectric

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I have had the same line of thoughts and toyed with tracksaws and rails for some time, still weighing things up and now have thrown a rail square into the equation just to make it a more difficult decision. Currently I use a length of angle iron and a Bosch saw, carefully aligning the angle iron and clamping before rechecking alignment. Then run the saw along the edge for the cut and in many cases that is job done. But when making smaller sections following the first cut I then have to reset the angle iron square to my first cut, marking out using the 3-4-5 rule and a square before again clamping and re checking for the next cut. This works but adds a lot of time to getting the wood cut and can introduce very small errors that can throw things out later. So a track could replace my angle iron, but would be 1400/1500 mm long compared to 2000mm of very robust, heavy iron and still needs the setting out, so add a rail square to the track and now it self aligns making life easier but still not capable of cutting a batch of repetative cuts where using the track on an MFT top with no rail square would deliver. But if you now add some parallel guides to the rail square/track and at even more expense you have a good solution for cutting sheet goods with ease and capable of repetition.

So I think it comes down to how much are you willing to pay to make life easier for the type of work you are doing because as I said before, once upon a time a chippy would cut to a line with a hand saw and this is still the cheapest option although requiring the most physical effort and skill. At the other extreme a decent table saw would be in my opinion the ultimate method because set the stops and feed away and as simple as that but most expensive, has the largest footprint but no real effort from you.
 

Spectric

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Been looking at the videos and can see why the narrow bosch track is a problem on an MFT setup, so this problem must also effect the Mafel saw as well because they have more in common than not. But the Bosch/Mafel rails have the better connector system, or so a lot of people claim. Now with a minor tweak, (removal of a black piece of plastic) the Bosch saw now runs on the Makita track but you are left with the weaker Makita connector system. But I get the feeling that the track is the important component when it comes to accuracy of cut, probably why @HDC83 uses his Makita on the Metabo track as it uses the Bosch/Mafel connector method but he avoids MFT issues by using a rail square.

So the rail square is really needed if you want to keep your options open as to saw/track choice and use an MFT. So the Bosch runs on Makita track, does this mean you can run a Makita on a Bosch/Mafel/Metabo track?
 

Doug B

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Been looking at the videos and can see why the narrow bosch track is a problem on an MFT setup,
what is the problem ? I clicked on the video but as soon as he started waffling at 90 miles an hour I looked at the length of the video & thought I’m not wasting 14 minutes of my time on tripe :rolleyes:
 

HDC83

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what is the problem ? I clicked on the video but as soon as he started waffling at 90 miles an hour I looked at the length of the video & thought I’m not wasting 14 minutes of my time on tripe :rolleyes:
You obviously not been around many Irish folk as he speaks slow compared to most
 

Starjump

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I did a project recently, which had me doing some research first. As a result of pointers from this forum I watched YouTube vids from 'gid joiner'. -
From about 3:30min in he is cutting a full sheet of ply using the system that 'JobandKnock' recommends.
I bought some 'Toughbuilt' trestles and tried the same approach, it worked really well: acres of solid support. What really helps is having the two user-made rails that fit between the two trestles, trimmed to the right height. They then offer support to the sacrificial ply sheet that makes up the work table, along it's long edges, at the same height as the trestles are supporting it across it's width.
I spent a fortune on a 3 metre rail some time back and it is a boon to have when doing long cuts on a full sheet of ply.
On rail length I also have some other lengths and the 1900mm one is the one I use the most.
The big solid table plus 3 metre and 1.9 metre rails do do a good and accurate job of breaking down full sized sheets, albeit weather dependent. (For me, it is an out-door set-up). But I would recommend it.
 

Starjump

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I heard someone recommend Makita splinter-guard to use with Festool rails, as an improvement when the stuff looses it's stickiness? Can anyone comment on this?
 
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