tongue and grooving.....quick poll (common concensus please)

[jeffinfrance]

sorry everyone, didn't see the add poll option when originally posting.....doh!

for cutting tongues and grooves for floor boards or jointing boards together (let me know also if these are different joints).....are there any other angles involved other than 90 degrees?

thanks in advance to everyone who responds.

all the best,

jeff

 

[jasonB]

I replied Yes, see my reply in the other thread.

Jason

 

[Shultzy]

I'm having trouble understanding why there would be any other angles involved in standard t&g. As far as I am aware the tongue and groove are always square to the edge of the wood. Now I appreciate that the tongue could have chamfers on the edges for easy fitting but I think these are unnecessary. The "v" groove on match-boarding or even a square groove are purely cosmetic and are nothing to do with the t&g.

There are, however, a number of different ways to edge joint timber together (increased glue area) which may involve angles but imho I wouldn't call the joint t&g.

 

[jasonB]

I've seen the sketch of Jeff's knives but won't post the pic or comment until I hear back from him

JAson

 

[katellwood]

The only time I have come across angled tongue and grooves in flooring is in high end flooring allowing a good secret fixing namely in maple gym and dance floors e.g.

 

[jeffinfrance]

thats the problem i'm having understanding shultzy.

but, i may be wrong as i am inexperienced, which is why i'm posting this thread.

i'll ask jason to post the (exaggerated for easy visualisation) sketch i drew of the cutter i recieved, because i want to make absolutely sure i'm not talking out of my buttocks! can i say that in here?

thanks again for all the invaluable advice.

jeff

 

[jasonB]

This is the exagerated sketch Jeff has done of the knives. As you can see by the measurement one side of the 50mm wide knife is 1mm shorter than the other. This means that the mating faces will be machined to an angle of 1.15 deg which with 25yrs of using a spindle I have not seen before, its certainly not clearance angle on the knives to prevent scorching, if anything the sides of the cutter may rub more on the acute angled parts

Doug says these are standard stock knives but Jeff says they were custom ground as he wanted them in TCT ?

Sketch shows knife at bottom and profile it is going to produce at the top

So what do the other regular spindle users think?

Jason

 

[jasonB]

Having now seen the knife in question I would change my vote to NO.

J

 

[Benchwayze]

I'm with Katellwood on this one.

I believe there is a router-cutter available for angled tongue and groove, but this is mainly intended for edge jointing from the router-cutter.
So my answer is yes, you can have angles other than 90 deg, in these joints.

HTH

John

 

[jasonB]

I'd al;so agree with you and Kettlewood that you can get this profile but the khife jeff has should be straight.

J

 

[Shultzy]

Having seen the knife profile I don't think this will produce what I would call standard t&g profile. It's a special to provide more glue surface and also to be able to produce both parts with one cutter. The angle is immaterial as one of the boards would be rotated thus nullifying the angle. This statement assumes that the cutting edges are parallel to the profile edge.

 

[xy mosian]

I would say maybe.

IMO In softwood the intended angles for tongue and groove flooring is invariably 90deg. for other flooring, examples above and see chipboard flooring panels, other angles are sometimes/often used. In the UK.

In this case if the cutter profile produces the required result, and this is to be used for a complete job, then use it. From the sketches you may come across problems if trying to fit to existing flooring. That can happen anyway between different batches of softwood t&g floorboarding.

HTH
xy

 

[markymark12]

Firstly i would point out that if i were widening stock then i would be using loose tongues, biscuits, etc, etc, and not a cutter as depicted, the jointer provides a far truer edge than that of the spindle, but for flooring, then yes I would agree for flooring T&G the clearance makes a fair better job, and it makes perfect sense to provide clearance on the reverse, but then how many people bother to machine crowns down for flooring, a lot of people know no different.
I have used paired brazed blocks manufactured in this manner and the omas sets also are manufactured in a similar manner to provide clearance on one face so that the viewed side pulls up tightest http://www.machines4wood.com/mall/popup ... ndsargeant Check out image3 and the resulting clearance on one face, ignore the way up the piece appears. This would be layed down with the clearance side down to the joist so resulting with a tight face. Leitz tooling https://woodtechtooling.com/STARK/TH20F ... lesIN.html 2 of the biggest manufacturers. Note that joints can be made with the Leitz with tight faces both faces, but this is not the best method for flooring. The clearance is also there so that slight rises when layed over do not show on the top as gaps, and also it helps limit any squeaking from the bottom edges/tongue rubbing.
Omas and Leitz are not the only ones to do this and i have seen it on other industrial tooling.
Decorative T&G is a different matter, but by its nature of beads, v's, combinations of, then this is a different knife anyway, so i cannot see the link. I guess the question should be were the cutters ground with flooring etc, in mind. If so then i would agree with the method of the grind, if not then was it made clear that you wanted knifes ground for jointing up boards. If someone asked me for the same, if it were to be used for flooring i would have clearance on one side of the tongue for the points raised above. If for widening stock i would suggest other better methods, but then that is for the joiner to decide, not someone grinding the knifes.

 

[jeffinfrance]

still couldn't find in any of those pics of tooloing, an angled meeting face. a well cut meeting face shouldn't need a gap on the bottom. with parallel top and bottom edges and both side of the board planed, more flexibility is obtained for using off cuts without returning to the workshop to rect tonges and grooves on the ends of the boards.

bottom line, every toolmaker and sharpener i have spoken to since i started this thread says the cutting face should be square to the surface of the board, any angles involved would be for specialist joints as previously suggested here, which would make that pretty much 100% concesus.

thank you everyone for your help.

all the best

jeff