Thicknesser table heights

[FirstMM]

Hey all,

This is my first post here and I am just getting into woodworking at the age of about 40 - I have ALOT to learn!

I recently bought a Triton thicknesser which I am sending back because of constant snipe (2" either end of the board) and have replaced with a Axminster CT330.

Both of these thicknessers have the same problem; the infeed and outfeed tables are a few millimeters lower than the centre table. I thought that the whole point of the extended tables was that they are supposed to support the workpiece as it enters and leaves the machine - can someone please clarify for me I have got this wrong? I haven't even turned on the CT330 and it is being collected next week but, obviously, would prefer to get on and use it!

Thanks in advance to anyone who picks this up!

Mikey

 

[marcros]

I can't say I have checked my ct330 but the results are fine. I will put a straight edge across the centre table and see how it compares with the indeed and outfeed. It may be next week before I get a chance though. I have found it to be a good machine though.

 

[FirstMM]

Thanks for the reply. I'll be interested to find out the result!
Do you get any snipe problems at all?

 

[marcros]

Nothing to note when things are properly supported. When I first started to use the machine (no prior experience) and I tried to take a bit much off in a pass on long lengths, I got a bit. I do allow for it in lengths where possible, but I didn't get any on the last run through I did.

A decent roller stand or spare pair of hands is very useful.

I wouldn't replace the machine unless I got a lot more space and could have a floor standing one or if I got a decent planer thicknesser, which would cost c£1000 secondhand. I would guess. If it broke, I would probably try and get another the same, which probably speaks volumes about it.

I don't know how it arrives- have you fitted the rollers to the ends of the tables. I would have thought that it is only those that need to be level with the centre table.

 

[FirstMM]

Everything came pre-assembled.

I'll be using the thicknesser predominantly for guitar building and some of this involves stock that is shorter than the infeed table so it will never see the roller. This is one of the main reasons why I want to avoid snipe losses; getting hold of decent quality, quarter sawn timber like ebony and rosewood is pretty expensive and even more so for longer lengths!

 

[marcros]

I will check for you.

A sled might be a good idea to make short lengths a bit easier to handle.

 

[Fishandchips]

Check out the link below and watch the utube video. Explains everything.

http://woodgears.ca/jointer/planer_snipe.html

 

[FirstMM]

Thanks for the link fishandchips. What Matthias describes is exactly what I observed with the Triton machine after a number of tests. It was only a small lift but it was enough to warrant concern!

I am generally planing blocks to differing thicknesses so consectutive butt feeding is usually not an option. I did think about putting a sacrificial block of maple or oak offcuts before and after the piece but then decided that I might as well just bite the bullet and purchase a machine that had it covered!

I am still unsure as to whether the in and out feed tables should be perfectly level with the center table or not or even whether to just make a long table to sit across all three out of some 18mm ply.
My concern is that, if all three tables should be level then I am essentially fixing a £600 new out of the box machine which, I feel, should not be necessary...

Of course, if I am just being overly picky and this the table height thing is perfectly normal then please tell me to stop worrying about it!

 

[Steve Maskery]

Snipe when planing is usually down to poor setup. Snipe when thicknessing is almost invariably poor technique. Does this help?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHfjSatKITQ

 

[FirstMM]

Hi Steve - I have actually watched that a couple of times and there is some good info there even though I don't have the planer, only the thicknesser. The piece I was testing was only a 9" long block of oak (so support was not the problem apart from the uneven tables) and I was trying to take off about half a mm per pass. I could actually see the roller case lift when the oak hit the second roller! That was on the Triton machine. I also tried using a strip of plywood in place of the table and the same thing happened so I think there was too much play in the lifting mechanism.

By the way Steve - I have a growing collection of Luthier Cam Clamps thanks to you!

 

[Steve Maskery]

I could actually see the roller case lift when the oak hit the second roller! That was on the Triton machine. I also tried using a strip of plywood in place of the table and the same thing happened so I think there was too much play in the lifting mechanism.

I'm not sure I understand you. The outfeed roller SHOULD rise a bit as the workpiece goes underneath it. That puts the springs under a bit of compression, which in turn drive the timber out of the machine. If it didn't, the wood would stop as soon as it left the infeed roller. The rollers push the wood down and along, not up. At least, that's what's supposed to happen!

By the way Steve - I have a growing collection of Luthier Cam Clamps thanks to you!

Useful, aren't they?
S

 

[FirstMM]

I think I probably worded that badly. The roller case is what Triton call the assembly unit containing the two rollers and the cutting blades. The whole assembly lifts when both rollers are in use so maybe they are under too much tension..., again it is not adjustable easily (i.e. without taking apart a brand new machine). Could be that they are over tensioned from the factory to allow to relaxation later down the road.

 

[SurreyHills]

I think the length of timber you are thicknessing might be on the short side. I've noticed when I thickness short lengths the compression of the rollers causes snipe as the timber isn't as well supported as a longer length would be. Have you tried longer lengths to see if the problems till occurs?

 

[FirstMM]

Good question; yes I did and with exactly the same result

I suspect that the CT330 from Axminster will not have this problem - apart from being more than twice the cost it also has a lock on it which should minimise the problem.
It is just the table heights that worry me. As I said, if they are all like this then I can just build a removable table for smaller stock. If, however, this is a production or QC problem then I'd rather get it sorted out before I start using it!

 

[dp341]

If the pieces are that small why not hand plane them. If you have a lot to remove use the thicknesser first for the bulk.

 

[FirstMM]

lol - good point that

Sadly my hand plane skills are woeful! The pieces are all quarter sawn so I am effectively planing end grain and I am not all that confidant about that! My attempts resulted in alot of chatter and I kind of lost confidence but I hear you - that is an ideal solution to the problem.

 

[marcros]

right, I have checked my ct330.

The centre table is flat and level. The outside roller of both the infeed and outfeed table are coplanar with that central table, using my milled spirit level as a straight edge. This is how I received it- I dont know if there is any adjustment, and this is the first time i have ever checked it. The other end of each table, ie where it meets the centre table is lower. I didnt measure it, but I would estimate from memory somewhere around 1/8", maybe 3/16" or so.

I would guess that your 9" pieces are too short to register on the infeed table roller, and the centre table at the same time. I think you will have to use a sled of some form. it will be much safer doing so anyway.

if you need any other measurements, just let me know.

 

[FirstMM]

Thanks marcros! Today I got a phone call from Axminister basically confirming that they are deliberately manufactured with the feed tables lower than the centre table and that only the rollers on each end should be level with the center table. Presumably this is to reduce friction across the full table length?

I am looking into the sled idea - I think that may work. I have seen a couple that suggest using a sled and a thicknesser in place of a jointer/planer. I am not sure how safe that would be though! I guess that, so long as the workpiece is stable on the sled and a suitable push stick is used, it could work....