Thickness of frame and panel

[ByronBlack]

I'm going to be making some smallish wall cabinets for family xmas presents using some of that nice spalted maple I recently bought. I'm just finishing of the design and working out dimensions, and have stumbled across a problem that I've been unable to find a solution for on the net or my current limited book supply.

I wish to make a frame and panel door. Is it unwise to make the frame out of 15mm thick stock and routing a 5mm groove to accept the resulting panel? My initial plan was to go with 20mm thick stock, but the sycamore I have got won't provide with that thickness once re-sawn (its 37mm thick - I don't want to plane away the other 17mm).

Finally, I've also decided to go with 15mm for the carcass panels (side and top/bottom) is this acceptable, or should it be thicker?

For reference the cabinet will be 350mm tall by 210mm wide.

TIA

 

[jasonB]

15mm should be more than adequate for that size cabinet, I've made bigger boxes than that with 10-12mm sides and framed lids.

Jason

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for the quick answer Jason - lovely box! I assume with that size wood; movement of the panel isn't an issue?

 

[jasonB]

The panel for the lid is rebated on the front face and is fitted into grooved "styles & rails" there is a very small chamfer around the top edge of the panel which creates a shadow line which is enough to hide the small expansion gap but as you say the amount of movement on a 6" wide panel is quite small.

Jason

 

[Waka]

BB

You'[ll have no problem using 15mm stock for your panel construction, I have used 15mm for larger dimensions and have found it no problem.

Don't forget to show us the pic's of WIP.

 

[seanybaby]

I actually have the same dilemma at the moment. I have panels which will be 8 or 9mm thick by 700 x 240. How thick should my rails and stiles be? I have been playing with sketchup to get some ideas, how about 25mm? Thicker? Thinner?

These proportion questions don't ever seem to pop up in woodworking books. Or am i just reading the wrong books?

Cheers
Sean

 

[Waka]

Sean

I'm not sure there is any laid down guidance on how wide the stile and rails should be, for the size of panel you are doing I would suggest that 25mm would be be a bit narrow, my suggestion would be 1 1/2 to 2 inches.

Having said that it does depend on what the panel is for, can you give us a clue.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sure you will be OK at 15mm for the frames Byron, I have worked at 12mm without issue in the past

 

[jasonB]

Sean

I would have though 18mm will be OK if using hardwood if this is a single door, what you have to look out for is the whole construction becoming too "heavy". A door of 25mm plus will need a lead angle planing on the edge or you will have to leave some large door gaps.

If you want a flat panel when viewed from the outside it is quite common to "raise" the back of the panel either with a simple rebate or a narrow curuing cut (some of the CMT cutters have this as an added featute on their panel raising sets), this would give you say a 6mm edge to fit into a 6mm groove which will suit 18mm frame material.

JAson

 

[ByronBlack]

Waka - WIP shots will be in action from next week - as soon as I finish my little krenovian sofa table.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

I do find I'm spending more time designing out issues before the project starts now, I think i've learnt quite a bit from the greenhouse and workbench project where I naively thought that i'd deal with the sketchy issues closer to the time, but this just produced stress and delay's.

Also, because I have to get these three cabinets made before xmas I'm trying to develop a good work-flow, unfortunately there is quite a lot of requirement for the use of the router in this project, so I need to make sure all my rebates and grooves etc. are correct so i can get the tooling ahead of time.

One final question on the frame and panel. How deep should the grooves in the frame be to allow for the panel movement? I was thinking of using 5mm wide x 15mm deep groove, and making the panel's tongue 12mm deep so there is a 3mm expansion allocation?

 

[woodbloke]

5mm in width sounds fine but I would make the depth a lot less, maybe about about 6 or 7mm and have just a fraction to allow for movement. Provided that your panel is well seasoned you ought not to have very much movement at in a cabinet that size - Rob

 

[jasonB]

12mm of panel into a 15mm groove will actually give you 6mm in total for movement which is far more than you should be hoping for. I would bo for about an 8mm groove with 7mm of panel in each side.

Its worth rough cutting all your timber now and storing it inside in a centrally heated room until you come to work on it, this will allow for final conditioning.

Jason

 

[Waka]

Byron

I normally do a 3/8 rebate (whatever that is in mm). What are you using for the panel becasue this will determine what gap you need? For example if you are using faced mdf then the gap would be smaller than using hardwood.

 

[Smudger]

Jason - I'm not toally clear on what you mean (my inexperience showing!)

Do you mean rebating the back of the door frame and then rebating the edges of the door panel so that the panel fits into the rebates?

Would you also chamfer the top edge of the rebate (the part that shows when the door is closed) to look like a 'proper' panelled door?

 

[ByronBlack]

Rob/Jason - thanks i'll amend the plan with an 8mm rebate.

Waka - i'll be using some air dried spalted maple, I intend to do as Jason suggests and rough cut all the boards and leave in the house for about a week - do you think that'll be long enough?

Also while we are on the subject, what finish do you recommend?

 

[jasonB]

Byron the longer you can keep it indoors the better, even if you make a start take it back into the house at the end of each day.

What are you using for the carcase, if you want to keep it light then a couple of coats of sanding sealer and then some wax is quick and easy, for a bit more depth an oil will do but can darken the wood.

Smudger, basically its like having a simple raised panel on the back of the door which can just be a simple rebare with square edges, rebate with an angled edge or something like this one but the front of the panel is left flat. The frame is just a simple groove unless you want the front moulded.

Jason

 

[Waka]

Byron

If I'm doing a job I normally leave the wood in the room/house its going to be in for at least a month, then I take it to the workshop and make the piece, its then returned to its environment as soon as possible to stop any additional movement.

Not a Professional, just an ameture

 

[ByronBlack]

thanks waka, i'll be transporting the wood into the house shortly - after a find a place that is not obvious to SWMBO of course!

 

[Smudger]

Thanks, Jason. That's the method I am planning to use on a small cabinet.

 

[Woodmagnet]

after a find a place that is not obvious to SWMBO of course!

Try under her purse. :twisted: :lol: