The lathe is dead - long live the lathe...

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bogmonster

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Hi,

My rather troublesome Poolewood manual speed control hunk of junk has bitten the dust. There is too much wrong with it to get any enjoyment out of using it any more:

1) The Motor was missing a key (now replaced) and the shaft is badly worn - unless greased every day (which involves a complex strip down of the speed control) is is unbearably noisy and getting worse every time I use it.
2) The motor has a problem with the centrifugal switch and arcs badly sometimes - the load crack is enough to scare me half to death.
3) My hokey large diameter turning 'bed' is n't great and requires a lot of fiddling and even then is not very rigid.
4) The banjo has been modified by a previous owner and it is hard to fit the tool rests - real PITA

Other than the above issues I don't like:

1) It's minimum speed of about 350rpm - too fast for my largest bowls and too fast for sanding
2) It's size

What I really like is the turning position with the headstock swivelled 90 degrees.

So, I think I have decided on a replacement, but before I go there, this is what I want:

1) To be able to turn standing in front of the bowl, not leaning over the bed. Due to ill health I find leaning over the bed uncomfortable.
2) Something where I can turn bowls up to say 18" - and not just platters, deep bowls
3) Hollow headstock spindle so I can use my cheapo vacuum chuck - real convert on vacuum chucks
4) Variable speed
5) Cheap ;)
6) It would also be useful if I could reuse my existing chucks and face plates which are very similar to a graduates but with a fractionally wider shoulder.

Having the option of using a tail stock would be handy but to be honest I hardly ever use one.

Sadly there is little I really afford. I think the best option might be a short bed graduate. Ok, the tailstock is a bit of a joke but I can probably live with that. I can weld up a riser to get a sensible working height. They look cool and they are probably the most affordable option that ticks the boxes. I expect by chucks and faceplates will fit - maybe with a tiniest amount of lateral play.

I am thinking about £500 for a lathe and £450 for a new motor and inverter (assuming I am not lucky enough to get a dual voltage motor).

* The Jet 1442 is too small.
* The Jet 1642 is too small.
* The Jet 3520 looks perfect but is too expensive - if money was not so tight I think this would be the lathe for me.
* The Record Maxi 1 (with bowl attachment) looks good but still too expensive
* Hegners and Wevamacs are also too expensive

Basically, I have done well with the cheapo Poolewood and I am struggling to find anything that will be capable enough in my price range.

Another advantage I can see with the Graduate is that the prices hold up well so if I ever do sell it on I probably won't loose too much.

Confused, BM
 
Graduate Lathe is not going to give you a swivel headstock, to get the face on turning you prefer, you would have to use it as bowl turning only lathe or reverse turning on the back of the headstock (need room to work all round lathe)

I suspect Graduate threads are not going to be compatible with existing Chucks and faceplates.
Poolwood will be 1-1/2" X 6tpi, ( 55 or 60 deg thread dependant on age/model of poolwood)
 
CHJ":29ps9t6i said:
Graduate Lathe is not going to give you a swivel headstock, to get the face on turning you prefer, you would have to use it as bowl turning only lathe or reverse turning on the back of the headstock (need room to work all round lathe)

I suspect Graduate threads are not going to be compatible with existing Chucks and faceplates.
Poolwood will be 1-1/2" X 6tpi, ( 55 or 60 deg thread dependant on age/model of poolwood)


I don't fancy outboard turning in the 'wrong' direction so I would be looking at a short bed bowl lathe. On my Poolewood I use a graduate L/R Axminster chuck. The threads are compatible with my lathe, the datum shoulder (sorry,can't recall the correct name) was not, had to get a few thousandths skimmed off the inside - just can't remember how many thousandths so not sure if that will be a big issue - might be an issue for precision work in the scroll chuck but I am sure it would be fine for roughing with face plates, screw chucks and pin chucks all of which I use regularly.

I am looking again at the Jet 1642 though. I could turn off the end of the bed with either an extension (I recall somebody fitting an Axminster bed extension) or a free standing tool rest.

Happy enough with good used but can't see that much in the for sale section or on eBay.

BM
 
bogmonster":3xjt13tg said:
.... On my Poolewood I use a graduate L/R Axminster chuck. The threads are compatible with my lathe, the datum shoulder (sorry,can't recall the correct name) was not, had to get a few thousandths skimmed off the inside - just can't remember how many thousandths so not sure if that will be a big issue - might be an issue for precision work in the scroll chuck but I am sure it would be fine for roughing with face plates, screw chucks and pin chucks all of which I use regularly....

OK, I see why your chucks may transpose, had you have been using earlier Poolwood chucks they may have caused problems, I had both, (lathes and chucks) and they were not mutually interchangeable both ways.
 
bogmonster":2r2epj72 said:
I don't fancy outboard turning in the 'wrong' direction so I would be looking at a short bed bowl lathe.

Remember if you have speed control fitted you will have reverse so you will be turning the "right way" on the outboard side.

I have a graduate and wouldn't be without it. It's of very solid construction and with some new sealed bearings fitted (around £40 iirc) it's virtually maintenance free. The speed controller kit came from Newton Tesla, who I would highly recommend, very good quality and very helpful techie type people. You are more than welcome to come and try it out but I'm little too far away I think. :(

Kind regerds,
Ed
 
Hi Naxie, it was the Telsa speed control I was looking at. How are you stopping the chuck un-threading itself? I know that some chucks have grub screws but most don't. Given I like turning large lumps, I don't want then coming loose :shock:

Here are my last few projects which are representative of the sort of turning I do. The largest bowl in this set is about 16" finished size so I probably could have roughed this out on a Graduate short bed but not on the 1642 without a bed extension or floor standing rest. The Maxi 1 would have coped easily - maybe I should ring around and see who will do me a deal on one of those?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33795885@N04/14600502860/

Sorry, didn't bother clearing the table first :(

BM
 
Hi

Get the Maxi-1, it's much more suited to your needs - you'll always be regretting a decision not to.

Regards Mick
 
Hi Spindle,

One concern with the Maxi 1 is reliability. I know some of the other record lathes had terrible reliability issues, not sure if this applies to the Maxi? If I am going to spend upwars of £2000 on a lathe it must last.

Another option I am looking at is the Axminster AT1628VS. I could buy this without the legs and cut down the bench from the Poolewood. The Poolewood bench is quite good and full of sand but in its current form way too long.

I suspect that I could even mount a bed extension to the metal sides of the poolewood bench. Might need to weld or bolt on a lump of 12mm plate stiffen it up a bit but that is easily done. In fact I could weld up a bench and fill it full of concrete and end up with something far more rigid then the official legs for far less money - but way more hassle.

It is not big between centres but that is a bonus for me - no plans to ever turn stair spindles and standard lamps :)

As the headstock will slide down the bed I expect I would normally work off the end of the bed - its short length giving me more room in my limited space.

Of the new options this sounds the cheapest but is it going to be man enough? If I am honest, I don't turn masses of bowls above 12", they don't sell well, but I do want the option. The largest bowl I have tuned had a finished size of 18" by 9" - I didn't have a bandsaw so was a very roughly chainsawed blank and was the biggest piece of wood I dared spin at 350 RPM on my wobbly lathe. For larger pieces I expect platters and wall hangings to be more normal - although those wall hangings can be very out of balance....

BM
 
You would need some sort of locking device ie a grub screw to stop it unthreading. Maybe you can retro fit this to a chuck, not sure how possible this would be, to my mind it's only a drill and tap, but maybe one of the more engineerie members needs to comment on that?

I quite easily adapt to turning either way to be honest but I am naturally left handed so maybe that helps? :-k

Kind regards,
Ed
 
I can recommend the AT1628VS as I have one myself and it has not baulked at anything I have thrown at it. This includes roughing out big burrs up to 24" dia and 12" deep and it has coped without slowing down or slipping even on large cuts. At the moment I use the lathe with the head turned and a home made tool rest, which isnt very good so I will be buying the Jet one soon.

On top of all that a very well known pro turner who has a Maxi 1 is seriously thinking of changing to the 1628 as he says it is a better lathe.

john
 
Hi John,

Could you let me know the height between centres and the bottom of the bed casting? Trying to work out if I can reuse my current bench?

BM
 
jpt":2u3spnc0 said:
I can recommend the AT1628VS as I have one myself and it has not baulked at anything I have thrown at it. This includes roughing out big burrs up to 24" dia and 12" deep and it has coped without slowing down or slipping even on large cuts. At the moment I use the lathe with the head turned and a home made tool rest, which isnt very good so I will be buying the Jet one soon.

On top of all that a very well known pro turner who has a Maxi 1 is seriously thinking of changing to the 1628 as he says it is a better lathe.

john

I was about to recommend one, as I have one of them myself. Especially useful is a bed extension mounted lower down for turning bowls up to 70 cm diameter "front on", been using it since Oct/Nov last year and not had any problems with it at all (so far) :) And I do like to try some bigger difficult bits of wood.
 
Hi

I had a discussion on here a while ago where it transpired that the AW1628VS was more expensive than the MAXI-1 if you added up the accessories required to bring it to the same spec, it's also considerably lighter than the Record machine.

I'm also sure you will find that Record had issues with their motors and controllers when they were supplied from the far east - I understand that they have now gone back to sourcing them in Europe and the issues have ceased, but please confirm my dodgy memory with Record.

Regards Mick

Found it - You may find the views aired in this thread interesting:

which-one-to-buy-t77097-30.html
 
Spindle":2p9px20x said:
Hi

I had a discussion on here a while ago where it transpired that the AW1628VS was more expensive than the MAXI-1 if you added up the accessories required to bring it to the same spec, it's also considerably lighter than the Record machine.

I'm also sure you will find that Record had issues with their motors and controllers when they were supplied from the far east - I understand that they have now gone back to sourcing them in Europe and the issues have ceased, but please confirm my dodgy memory with Record.

Regards Mick

Mick, I fully support what you have said about the Maxi 1 in this thread. Mine is now coming up to 5 years old and touch wood I have never had a single problem with it. When I think about some of the lumps of wood I have thrown on it (30" diam at times) and some of them so irregular and out of balance it had coped brilliantly. The Maxi 1 is a very robust machine designed for large work but equally you can produce delicate tiny work.

I hovered around before buying the machine as at nearly £2000 when I brought it but took the plunge and have never looked back. I am sure that there are better lathes in this upper price bracket but the Maxi 1 has met all my needs and more.

When I brought the machine a mate said that I was mad spending that sort of money . Nearly 5 years on he is on his third lathe and still not happy and with all the ancillary equipment he has had to buy for the different lathes he has spent well over what the Maxi cost me.

I would say that to buy a lathe like the Maxi as a first lathe is a step to far. I brought a cheap lathe as my first lathe and when I realised I was hooked into this turning game I upgraded to a machine that would perform and give long service.

Vic
 
Oh I did enjoy the linked debate on the merits of the CL4 / Maxi / 1628 / Jets. This does appear to be a religious decision.

I really would rather avoid spending £2000+ on a lathe. My son will soon be going to Uni and my job is not necessarily that secure and I am only working part time due to health problems. I have enough money in the bank to buy whatever lathe I want, it is just being able to justify it. Turning is just one of my hobbies, I have am also an amateur blacksmith so have a forge in the other half of the garage - great combination, wood shavings, forge, yellow hot metal and oxy propane set in the corner, what could possibly go wrong?

In the short term I could make do with a 1628 on an existing bench at £1400 but I agree, when legs and bed extension is added it starts getting up to the same money as many of the other options.

One interesting comment in the other thread was about using the extension bed on the 1628 for large bowls and the length of the banjo not allowing the toolrest to be positioned on the outside of large bowls. If true, this sounds like a big issue for me. I could use a free standing toolrest but have never really liked the idea of these - always worried about pulling them into the wood on a big catch and general lack of stability - maybe this is unfounded.

So the 1628 on my old bench with jet free standing rest = £1750.
Maxi 1 is another £600 at £2350

I do actually have a free standing rest that came with the Poolewood but it does not look very clever. For a start it has 4 feet so unless your floor is level you would need to constantly adjust it.

Arghhh, this is too complicated...
 
For what it's worth, and just to confuse it a bit more, I've got a record nova 1624 which ticks all your boxes, except vs which can easily be added later (speed genie etc) it's a very solid reliable machine
 
Hi Phil, yes, that one is an option I am considering :)

WoodMonkey, I had not considered the 1624. Although it does not have variable speed the lowest speed is reasonably slow at 178 RPM. The outrigger does look mighty flimsy on it and I have read reviews that it does flex quite a bit with people resorting to bottle jacks under it - that does not sound spiffy :( Do you use the outrigger? What are your thoughts?

BM
 
bogmonster":2hz1h18s said:
Could you let me know the height between centres and the bottom of the bed casting? Trying to work out if I can reuse my current bench?
BM

AT1628VS
Bed height - 165mm + centre height - 204mm
Total - 369mm (14.5")
 
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