Table saw,rock,hard place ....... stuck

[veneerman]

I am updating my table saw to a bit more professional one. But having a few problems deciding on one. Cost is a pretty major factor, this is hopefully the last and best saw i ever buy ..... in no particular order here are the runners.
1. Hammer k3 basic or winner / only winner if its from show room at cut price.
2. Startrite ts1 sliding table saw.
3. Mini max sc1 genius.
4. Sedgwick ta315.

This saw is for small scale production work. Mainly large to medium mirror frames and photo frames. And maybe the odd bit of furniture. I have no experience with any of these models. I know of the saws apart from the minimax. I have read reviews on plenty of bandsaws by startrite and come recommended but not there new table saw range. The Sedgwick is a solid unit and have heard very good reviews on it. Nothing on the minimax though. And the hammer range from felder i have heard good things about. But very pricey !. The saw needs to be and stay accurate and plug along most of the day. I need to know i can rely on it. Customer service matters too. If anybody has used or owned any of these please could you let me know what you think and why you would choose one over the other. All wood will be solid that goes through it. Apart from my odd project.

The saw is for business but I will inevitably use it for some projects for myself which is why i would like a sliding table saw.

Any help would be grand ! Thank you

 

[MikeJhn]

Considering you use the main criteria is obviously going to be the accuracy of the mitre cut they can achieve the mitre slots on all the table saws I have used or come across do not have the accuracy required for a 45 deg mitre on a frame that will constantly be looked at i.e. a mirror or picture, the sliding tables can be set up sufficiently accurately to produce acceptable results, this will take some work though, the more solid the table and slide the easier it will be, all that being said, you may wish to consider a professional framing guillotine to finish off the mitre's to exact tolerance and spend far less on the table saw.

Mike

 

[pcb1962]

Marius Hornberger on Youtube has the Hammer and has made a couple of videos about it that are worth watching.

 

[veneerman]

Marius Hornberger on Youtube has the Hammer and has made a couple of videos about it that are worth watching.

Yeah I have seen them and there are a few others by the felder group. I have asked marius for an update on the saw but no reply yet. Very nice saw i think but the price tag is at the very top of what i have to spend. Do you have any experience with any of the brands ?

Thanks for the reply

 

[veneerman]

Considering you use the main criteria is obviously going to be the accuracy of the mitre cut they can achieve the mitre slots on all the table saws I have used or come across do not have the accuracy required for a 45 deg mitre on a frame that will constantly be looked at i.e. a mirror or picture, the sliding tables can be set up sufficiently accurately to produce acceptable results, this will take some work though, the more solid the table and slide the easier it will be, all that being said, you may wish to consider a professional framing guillotine to finish off the mitre's to exact tolerance and spend far less on the table saw.

Mike

thanks for the reply. The saw will be a work horse in the shop as i use pretty much all recycled timber so i need something beefy as well as accurate. I have looked at the guillotine option. But 70% is prodution work. So i think it would slow me down some what. I'm looking at 500 frames a week plus some fancier stuff too. I will use it for personal builds too. And for the best part of £3000 i would expect pretty accurate cuts. I know there are the initial set ups and some checks but i am hoping i dont have to do to much more.

Thank you

 

[pcb1962]

Yeah I have seen them and there are a few others by the felder group. I have asked marius for an update on the saw but no reply yet. Very nice saw i think but the price tag is at the very top of what i have to spend. Do you have any experience with any of the brands ?

Afraid not, I have a Kity 619 that I'm very happy with, but I'll be ordering the Hammer the day I win the lottery.

 

[veneerman]

Yeah I have seen them and there are a few others by the felder group. I have asked marius for an update on the saw but no reply yet. Very nice saw i think but the price tag is at the very top of what i have to spend. Do you have any experience with any of the brands ?

Afraid not, I have a Kity 619 that I'm very happy with, but I'll be ordering the Hammer the day I win the lottery.

Is that old or new ? The sheppach is a kity is that right ?. Just different badge. And yeah as for the hammer i would have to sell pretty much all my possessions to get that saw. It's last on the list because of price. But if i sell my soul to ....... i might just be able to get one. Its 300 quid extra for delivery and the upgrades or optional extras are a lot !. They have a show room near me so i am hoping something comes up there.

 

[RobinBHM]

What sort of section will you be mitring and typical lengths?

Do you have three phase?

For super accurate mitring on a saw you would be better off with a panel saw with the sliding table running right next to the saw blade.

I would suggest visiting some local dealers and see what they have 2nd hand and compare what you can get for your money. For £3k you could get a 3.2M panel saw which would support large mirror frame parts nicely (if you have workshop space!).

local dealer: http://www.allwood.co.uk/used-machinery ... w---pk300a

 

[Beau]

From a quick look at them the Startrite and Hammer look the best for your use. Having the sliding carriage that goes right up to the blade make precision work much easier. You can clamp crosscut jigs to the table for specific jobs. Never so easy with an outboard carriage. I use the Hammers big brother and never have any problems doing picture frames straight from the saw.

 

[mbartlett99]

This may not be welcome news but I know a bit about picture framing; the quickest, easiest, most space efficient method is - by a country mile - a morso guillotine (barring the very nice but pricey double headed mitre saw which actually might be a valid option for production work). There's a few at decent prices on ebay right now - anything below a grand (in good condition) is a fair price. If that doesn't take your fancy then how about a Kapex?

 

[MikeJhn]

That's two people who know about making picture frames that have a advised using a guillotine, its good advice for mitre cuts, a table saw will not give the same accuracy.

Lots of options here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw= ... +&_sacat=0

One of these: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-be ... s-ax959909 on offer at Axminster Sittingbourne last time I visited, can't remember the price, but it was only last week I was there.

Mike

 

[mbartlett99]

I guess it would help if read the entire chain first. For that number of frames = double headed mitre saw which is what all the art publishing houses use. They'll support the rebate, cut absolutely true and not knacker the gesso (taking it that you're using supplied moulding). I believe Pete from Wessex Pictures is the rep for our area and sell Cassese saws. You know Arcadia is just up the road?

 

[veneerman]

What sort of section will you be mitring and typical lengths?

Do you have three phase?

For super accurate mitring on a saw you would be better off with a panel saw with the sliding table running right next to the saw blade.

I would suggest visiting some local dealers and see what they have 2nd hand and compare what you can get for your money. For £3k you could get a 3.2M panel saw which would support large mirror frame parts nicely (if you have workshop space!).

local dealer: http://www.allwood.co.uk/used-machinery ... w---pk300a

Sadly no 3 phase maybe if i relocate next year..... the lenth at top end 6ft long and 4-6 inch wide. bottom end 10 inches long and 1 inch wide so it does vary a lot. Maybe 2 1/2 thick max. Until next year i have basically a two garage workspace. There are some nice second handvsaws but space is at a premium for now. Thanks for the reply

 

[veneerman]

From a quick look at them the Startrite and Hammer look the best for your use. Having the sliding carriage that goes right up to the blade make precision work much easier. You can clamp crosscut jigs to the table for specific jobs. Never so easy with an outboard carriage. I use the Hammers big brother and never have any problems doing picture frames straight from the saw.

What felder model is it ? Milton keynes is not far and i spoke to a nice chap up there about ex display models. He said that they get some in every month so i am keeping an eye out but it is space orvlack of it. Cant run before walking so to speak. And i am thinking about jigs to help. I like the guillotine idea but there not cheap and production cost would go up having to use one. But they do seem to be very acurate.

Thank you !

 

[Beau]

From a quick look at them the Startrite and Hammer look the best for your use. Having the sliding carriage that goes right up to the blade make precision work much easier. You can clamp crosscut jigs to the table for specific jobs. Never so easy with an outboard carriage. I use the Hammers big brother and never have any problems doing picture frames straight from the saw.

What felder model is it ? Milton keynes is not far and i spoke to a nice chap up there about ex display models. He said that they get some in every month so i am keeping an eye out but it is space orvlack of it. Cant run before walking so to speak. And i am thinking about jigs to help. I like the guillotine idea but there not cheap and production cost would go up having to use one. But they do seem to be very acurate.

Thank you !

It's a 731 combination machine but it's a long way from being a current model.

 

[mbartlett99]

When my ex set up business we had a few bright ideas - including buying a good saw (well it was my excuse at least) but were quickly warned off it by more seasoned hands. (Excuse me if I'm telling my granny how to suck eggs btw). One good point made was that the finish on bought mouldings is very brittle and will chip badly if you so much as look at it funny - and its not cheap. Even good sharp blades on the morso are no guarrantee. Solid wood is not so much of an issue. The other issue - which would never have crossed my mind is dust; it takes a long time to make sure your glass is dust free - and it really has to be very clean to be acceptable to the client. Saws obviously kick out a fair amount - the dedicated mitre saws are fully shrouded and have excellent dust pick up.

 

[veneerman]

That's two people who know about making picture frames that have a advised using a guillotine, its good advice for mitre cuts, a table saw will not give the same accuracy.

Lots of options here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw= ... +&_sacat=0

One of these: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-be ... s-ax959909 on offer at Axminster Sittingbourne last time I visited, can't remember the price, but it was only last week I was there.

Mike

Thank you for that mike ☺ it might be an option at a later date. Please see other reply i put up.

 

[veneerman]

When my ex set up business we had a few bright ideas - including buying a good saw (well it was my excuse at least) but were quickly warned off it by more seasoned hands. (Excuse me if I'm telling my granny how to suck eggs btw). One good point made was that the finish on bought mouldings is very brittle and will chip badly if you so much as look at it funny - and its not cheap. Even good sharp blades on the morso are no guarrantee. Solid wood is not so much of an issue. The other issue - which would never have crossed my mind is dust; it takes a long time to make sure your glass is dust free - and it really has to be very clean to be acceptable to the client. Saws obviously kick out a fair amount - the dedicated mitre saws are fully shrouded and have excellent dust pick up.

Dust no so much of a problem as i have another area well away from the shop. And that is wherei do final assembly and finishing. I make all my own moulding so thats ok too. The glass and mounting boards etc are all well away from dust. Thank you and I will have a look at a dedicated mitre saw with cover though ☺

 

[RobinBHM]

I can understsnd the problem, those sections are probably too big for a guillotine on its own.

I wonder if a chop saw and then guillotine would work? Or even 2 chop saws to save altering the angle?

A chop saw with a length stop (flipstop or similar), would be very quick to cut. I dont know if a chop would give you a good enough cut. Perhaps with a quality brand?

The advantage of these machines is that they can sit close to a wall and the work will stay parallel to the wall.

A table saw with some kind of sliding table will take a lot of space, certainly when working with 45 degree cuts.

There are plenty of morso machines around 2nd hand for about £500. The best are those that come with a spare pair of blades as they are expensive and 2 sets are needed to avoid downtime.

A double head mitre saw is a great machine, but I expect they are all 3 phase and serious money.

 

[veneerman]

I can understsnd the problem, those sections are probably too big for a guillotine on its own.

I wonder if a chop saw and then guillotine would work? Or even 2 chop saws to save altering the angle?

A chop saw with a length stop (flipstop or similar), would be very quick to cut. I dont know if a chop would give you a good enough cut. Perhaps with a quality brand?

The advantage of these machines is that they can sit close to a wall and the work will stay parallel to the wall.

A table saw with some kind of sliding table will take a lot of space, certainly when working with 45 degree cuts.

There are plenty of morso machines around 2nd hand for about £500. The best are those that come with a spare pair of blades as they are expensive and 2 sets are needed to avoid downtime.

A double head mitre saw is a great machine, but I expect they are all 3 phase and serious money.

i like the idea of that set up .......mmmmmm. i definitely can't afford a double and no 3 phase sadly. But two chop saws and guillotine is doable. But it goes back to all my timber is recycled and i need a work horse to plough through rough cutting before the planer. It really is a tough choice but that has given me food for thought. Thanknyou