Striking force?

[Jelly]

I recall reading a post stating that

If you need to give a chisel more than a gentle tap, it's not sharp enough.

(forgive me if I've paraphrased) and asks why one would even want to strike a chisel with great force...

I can see the idea behind the statement, and for fine work, it's probably a fair point; but to my mind it seemed myopic.

Using a 3/8" OBMC or 2" Firmer, you'd need a blooming huge mallet (the type used in trussed rafter assembly would do nicely) for just a tap to suffice... Without a lot of force, you'd get nowhere fast using a large chisel sharp or not.

I was sparked into posting when whilst cutting big rebates in particularly nasty 4*4 whitewood, I managed to explode a mallet head round the handle of one of my particularly huge firmer chisels.

Opinions? I'm firmly in the "give it a good belt if required" camp.

 

[Peter T]

I guess it depends on the chisel.

I have several Ray Iles English Pattern mortice chisels and these are made to be hit hard. It's the only way to produce a mortise with this type of chisel, and every video I've ever seen of their use shows this.

Now if you were talking about a paring chisel, that's a different matter!

 

[Jelly]

I guess it depends on the chisel...

Now if you were talking about a paring chisel, that's a different matter!

Indeed! Though I do have a patternmakers chisel somewhere which as far as I can tell is a beefier take on a paring chisel intended to be struck; Hit too hard I suspect it would flex and spring though...

I've also got some skew chisels ground from spare firmer chisels which can be struck, very useful for coarse work where paring would be onerous, but not enough material remains for conventional chopping or sawing could be used...

 

[RogerBoyle]

Jelly
The poster of that remark obviously has no idea of working with larger timbers and indeed working to deadlines
I'd be surprised if they made their livelihood from working timber
:roll: :roll:
For finer works then He/She has a valid point in general but even then you can come across some knots/grain combinations where you have no option but to give the chisel a good hard thump LOL

Roger

 

[Pekka Huhta]

The original comment must have been made by a woodworker who builds mainly dovetails or other light work Even a small mortice is really another thing.

My dovetailing or bench chisels are seldom hit, and if they are I usually use a rawhide hammer or a small wooden mallet. There I agree with the original comment, but either the original comment was only intended for light chiselling, or the commentator had not done any heavier woodwork at all.

With japanese chisels I use a japanese "genno" hammer and generally hit the chisels very hard. That's the whole point to get the mortice done in a decent time. And give my European mortice chisels a good beating with a big mallet, although I have grown to prefer the japanese chisels for all but the biggest woodworking joints.

For timber framing I use a 1,5 kg lump hammer or the butt of the same hand axe I use for cuting the rest of the timberframe joint. Which reminds me that I should turn a few more handles to my timberframing chisels... The handles don't last for years, but a big mortice just isn't done by lightly tapping a 2" framing chisel :wink:

Pekka

 

[bugbear]

Opinions? I'm firmly in the "give it a good belt if required" camp.

Agreed. There's a place for crap, blunt chisels too. A "general builder" was installing some oak window sills in my house.

The old ones were laminated covered chipboard, fixed down "blind".

He got a plastic chisel and a hammer out, and simply trashed the old sill into fragments - he was using the chisel and mallet like a hand-held pickaxe or mattock.

But perhaps that's "building" not cabinet making. Horse for horses, as always. Everything depends on context, and there are very few universal truths in anything.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Older hammer thread here: post726261.html?hilit=mallet#p726261

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Jelly,

It was my comment on this thread of Jim's about handles, specifically the ones on these fine edged cabinetmakers bevel edged chisels:

Clearly if you are removing more material using heftier chisels that are designed to be hit hard, like these:



Or these:



...then you can happily wallop the daylights out of them with a mallet or a hammer all day long and do them no harm at all.

 

[Jelly]

Oddly most of my firmer chisels have carver style handles and are thus unhooped... Through the merits of being both large and made of very high quality boxwood they've still seen off a number of unfortunate mallets.

Out of interest mathew, are bevel edged chisels with the side bevels extending to an arris right at the edges available?

 

[matthewwh]

There has to be something of a side otherwise you'd start altering the width but several manufacturers get them down to a mm or less, Ashley Iles, the Narex 8116 range and Robert Sorby spring to mind.

If you want them even finer then a few strokes with a diamond stone at 45 degrees is all that's needed. You don't want them so sharp that you slice the flesh of the supporting finger when paring though.

 

[Benchwayze]

I recall reading a post stating that

If you need to give a chisel more than a gentle tap, it's not sharp enough.

(forgive me if I've paraphrased) and asks why one would even want to strike a chisel with great force...

I can see the idea behind the statement, and for fine work, it's probably a fair point; but to my mind it seemed myopic.

Using a 3/8" OBMC or 2" Firmer, you'd need a blooming huge mallet (the type used in trussed rafter assembly would do nicely) for just a tap to suffice... Without a lot of force, you'd get nowhere fast using a large chisel sharp or not.

I was sparked into posting when whilst cutting big rebates in particularly nasty 4*4 whitewood, I managed to explode a mallet head round the handle of one of my particularly huge firmer chisels.

Opinions? I'm firmly in the "give it a good belt if required" camp.

Jelly,

I think it might have been my post that 'started' this discussion elsewhere. (Jacob decided he would put me right of course, but perhaps he didn't appreciate what I was getting at.)

So, whilst I haven't used massive construction methods, (such as in lock gates), I can appreciate the need for considerable force when morticing large, deep mortices.
I made plenty of hardwood window frames though, but I don't think I would ever have 'exploded' a mallet.
To me there's still overkill. If I ever needed to go at it like I would a 'fairground bell', I probably could have exploded my mallet too; or shatter the chisel handle. If there was ever need for that kind of force, maybe I would have needed a 'fairground' mallet too! :mrgreen:

It's a moot point now, but I still believe that sharp chisels don't need to be mauled for the kind of work I do these days. Nor do I think they should be attacked as if they were the Devil's instruments, (hammer) whatever I might be doing.


As for lock gates; well I might decide to use a big router for speed. 8)