Sole flat enough?

[woodbloke]

I think I'll have an "I love Clifton two-piece cap irons" T-shirt printed and wear it to the next Wilton mini-bash 8) 8) :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

:lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[bugbear]

I think I'll have an "I love Clifton two-piece cap irons" T-shirt printed and wear it to the next Wilton mini-bash 8) 8) :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

You have something against the Record Stay Set?

BugBear (with a couple of those)

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think I'll have an "I love Clifton two-piece cap irons" T-shirt printed and wear it to the next Wilton mini-bash 8) 8) :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

You have something against the Record Stay Set?

BugBear (with a couple of those)

Not at all - but difficult to buy as they are only available second-hand as manufacture ceased in the 1960s.

Cheers :wink:

Paul (who has one Record #05 Stay Set )

 

[Racers]

Hi,

But you can make missing bits

I like them and they seem to work well, and a finger on the cap works fine when reinstalling.

Pete

 

[matthewwh]

I think I'll have an "I love Clifton two-piece cap irons" T-shirt printed and wear it to the next Wilton mini-bash 8) 8) :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Can you get me one too please!!!

The point of the two piece cap iron is that it allows the blade to bed fully flat against the frog. Normal cap irons all impart some kind of bending force on the cutting iron, so you have a curved surface bedding on a flat one. As Rob Lee rightly points out, it won't make a hapeth of difference how flat the frog is when the surface you are installing adjacent to it is curved.

The two piece is designed to give full surface contact twixt frog and cutting iron. Because the cutting iron stays flat, it makes a blade sandwich. Soft iron frog, unhardened upper portion of the blade and soft mild steel cap iron, so everything around the hardened part of the blade is soft and either physically part of it, screwed down on to it or securely clamped to it with full surface contact. This has the same effect as laminating the blade to both the frog and the cap iron in terms of eliminating vibration. hence - no flutter!

Personally I can't see much advantage in making a lovely big solid bedrock frog unless you are going to transfer the full benefit of that solidity to the cutting iron where it's needed.

Getting on woodbloke's nerves is just a handy by-product, surely you didn't think they made them just for that?

 

[David C]

Karl Holtey certainly does not agree with this thesis. The 98 and newer version have blade support solely at the heel of the bevel and a single point pillar further back.

I had an infill plane once where the timber had shrunk and the heel of the bevel was not supported. It was unuseable.

The bend imparted to the blade by 95% of all capirons seems to be a good thing. Just an alternative point of view.

Best wishes,
David

 

[woodbrains]

Of course we are not talking about infill planes with Bailey patterns, but the point is more or less the same as I was trying to say earlier. A hollow in the frog is OK but a hump in it is useless, which is why I was advocating flattening them.

Mike.

 

[woodbrains]

Is this someone else extolloing the virtues of a FLAT frog bed and firmly clamped blade sets?
I was beginning to get paranoid

Mike.

The point of the two piece cap iron is that it allows the blade to bed fully flat against the frog. Normal cap irons all impart some kind of bending force on the cutting iron, so you have a curved surface bedding on a flat one. As Rob Lee rightly points out, it won't make a hapeth of difference how flat the frog is when the surface you are installing adjacent to it is curved.

The two piece is designed to give full surface contact twixt frog and cutting iron. Because the cutting iron stays flat, it makes a blade sandwich. Soft iron frog, unhardened upper portion of the blade and soft mild steel cap iron, so everything around the hardened part of the blade is soft and either physically part of it, screwed down on to it or securely clamped to it with full surface contact. This has the same effect as laminating the blade to both the frog and the cap iron in terms of eliminating vibration. hence - no flutter!

Personally I can't see much advantage in making a lovely big solid bedrock frog unless you are going to transfer the full benefit of that solidity to the cutting iron where it's needed.

Getting on woodbloke's nerves is just a handy by-product, surely you didn't think they made them just for that?

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think I'll have an "I love Clifton two-piece cap irons" T-shirt printed and wear it to the next Wilton mini-bash 8) 8) :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Can you get me one too please!!!

No problem

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Is this someone else extolloing the virtues of a FLAT frog bed and firmly clamped blade sets?
I was beginning to get paranoid

Mike.

Don't worry, Mike, there are several of us who share your views

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Karl Holtey certainly does not agree with this thesis. The 98 and newer version have blade support solely at the heel of the bevel and a single point pillar further back.

I had an infill plane once where the timber had shrunk and the heel of the bevel was not supported. It was unuseable.

The bend imparted to the blade by 95% of all capirons seems to be a good thing. Just an alternative point of view.

Best wishes,
David

Nice to see two other highly distinguished woodies who don't appear to like them as well.

I don't have an issue with how they work 'cos I don't use the things anyway (having gone down the BU route) and would agree that the 'flat bed' syndrome is probably desirable, but not necessary. Directly over the heel where the lever cap applies pressure is where all parts must mate securely...what happens behind that isn't too important. As someone else said though, the frog surface needs to be flat and not convex.
The two part cap won't fit into the Kell III (as I recollect) so the big bit has got to come off anyway, then when it's re-assembled and you forget to hold the little bit in place and then it falls off and scuttles somewhere under the bench amongst all the crud :evil: ...
The LN cap irons are also flat(ish) and in one piece, as are the QS variants (but I haven't seen one in detail) The Cliffies would be better if both bits could be joined (I think this can be done with silicone) so the 'falling off' bit will stay where it's supposed to be.

...and anyone wearing a T shirt like that is going to get turned away at the door :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Alf]

How about "I love Clifton two-piece cap irons" on the front, and "But our relationship kept coming apart" on the back...? :wink:

The point of my poorly-remembered Rob Lee comment, was the bedding area of the Veritas (iirc) is actively concave. Just a little bit. But I always manage to get myself in the soup as soon as I dabble in matters of flatness, squareness and other engineering matters, so I'll stop before the croutons arrive.

 

[paulm]

As a relatively recent newcomer to the clifton two piece gubbins I have to say that I think it is a very effective design, and leaving aside the benefits or otherwise of the bedding arrangement, the seperate toe piece makes rehoning the blade and stropping the back after a delightfully quick and easy affair.

It only takes a modicum of manual dexterity to keep a finger on the toe piece when necessary and is quickly learnt, hardly a major challenge :roll: :lol:

The performance of the whole arrangement certainly seems very effective in use also, as well as being quick and easy.

Another t-shirt over here please :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Another t-shirt over here please :wink: :lol:

OK

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Vann]

Another t-shirt over here please :wink: :lol:

And one for me...... (woodbloke, are you getting paranoid yet?) :lol:

Though mine doesn't need to be Clifton specific - I think the Record ones were slightly better made.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Alf]

I think the Record ones were slightly better made.

That's appropriate. The two-piece cap iron fan club is already looking to break into two factions... :wink:

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think you've put your finger on it, Alf :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Tom K]

What about those with Clifton cap irons on Acorn or Marples planes?

 

[Paul Chapman]

What about those with Clifton cap irons on Acorn or Marples planes?

They'll have to buy their own T-shirts :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Vann]

What about those with Clifton cap irons on Acorn or Marples planes?

They'll have to buy their own T-shirts :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Hang on Paul. It's still a Clifton two-piece so they can still wear "I love Clifton two-piece cap-irons" tee shirts.

For woodbloke we can get a "Two wheels are better than one" tee shirt (his Kell).

And for you Paul...... a tee shirt that says "Hey, there's no room left on my honing guide shelf". :roll: :lol: :lol:

Cheers, Vann.