Small router planes

[Rhossydd]

I've recently found the need to start cleaning up the bottoms of grooves, mortises and rebates, so I think having a small router plane in my workshop would be useful. Mostly I'll be working on relatively thin stock, cabinet door frames etc., so a closed face model is probably needed.
Researching into it there seem to be two basic types; Models with a square support rod, like the Lie-Nielsen (and some cheap open face clones) or models with a round rod like the current Veritas and the older Stanley 271 and Record 722 variants.
There are a few reports that the round support rods are prone to rotating and causing difficulties in use. Is this just user error or is this a real cause for concern ? or possibly a good feature if you can increase the support area available by using it at an angle ?

Any insights or recommendations ?

 

[bugbear]

I own and use a Record #722, and have never had the blade pivot in use.

(I also own a Stanley #271 and a Preston #22 )

My friend, however, has more...

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hus/join_yRe ... uters1.asp

(and he's bought more since that article was published)

BugBear

 

[JohnPW]

I've got the Record 722 and I've used the Stanley 271, I haven't had problems with the cutter rotating. As long as you do it up tight enough, it shouldn't rotate.

And I do think it's and advantage cos you set it at an angle for a skew cut.

 

[AndyT]

I've only got a Stanley 271 and never had a problem with rotation. If you did, you could always grind a flat on the stem of the cutter.

I believe the Record has a superior system for locking the cutter by pulling on it, rather than pressing. I doubt it makes much difference in practice.

 

[MIGNAL]

Doesn't the Stanley 271 have a groove/key that the screw presses against? I did read (somewhere) that the small Veritas suffered from this rotation problem but I've absolutely no experience with the Veritas.

 

[AndyT]

Doesn't the Stanley 271 have a groove/key that the screw presses against?

I've just been and looked and yes, indeed it does. Your memory is better than mine, Mignal!

 

[Rhossydd]

Thanks for everyone's input on this.
It seems I might be wrong to worry about the differences between round and square cutter shafts.
On that basis either an old Stanley or Record would be good at the right price, but given they often seem to attract quite a high price on eBay, a Veritas is not much more and has an extra trick being able to turn round to be used for bull nose work and is really nicely designed and made.

It seemed an easy decision, so I looked at any saving from a direct import (not a lot really), only to find a new option in Veritas's new medium router plane which looks very good, http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=72080&cat=51&ap=1, if a fair bit more expensive. Interestingly it has the same square shafted cutter from it's bigger brother. Tempted......

 

[bugbear]

a Veritas is not much more and has an extra trick being able to turn round to be used for bull nose work and is really nicely designed and made.

So does the Record 722 (second photo)

http://oldhandtools.co.uk/shop/metal-pl ... ter-plane/

The Stanley is a little different - it has has "open" and "closed" positions, but the blade is always within the perimiter of the base.

A quick search of old lots show the 722 at around £20 on eBay, unless it's painted orange :lol:

BugBear

 

[Rhossydd]

So does the Record 722 (second photo)

Thanks for pointing that out. The photos are interesting as they reveal there's not a lot of cross support on the 722 compared to the Veritas one

A quick search of old lots show the 722 at around £20 on eBay

Getting one through the post box for much less than £25 might require some patience though. Just £14 more gets a nice shiny Veritas one delivered.

 

[bugbear]

So does the Record 722 (second photo)

Thanks for pointing that out. The photos are interesting as they reveal there's not a lot of cross support on the 722 compared to the Veritas one

Pardon my ignorance - what's "cross support" ?

BugBear

 

[Rhossydd]

Pardon my ignorance - what's "cross support" ?

The area of the base plate that's perpendicular(either in front or behind of ) to the blade's orientation.
The cheap small router planes sold by Chronos, on eBay and Axminster simply have a slot in the base with no cross support behind or in front of the blade at all. Trying to use one on narrow stock, as per my OP, would be difficult, if not impossible.
In my opinion, more cross support should result in better/easier control.

 

[JohnPW]

You can make the base wider and/or longer by attaching it to a piece of wood.

I agree the Record or Stanley ones go for stupid money; £25-30!

 

[bugbear]

The cheap small router planes sold by Chronos

I hadn't seen those, and now I wish I hadn't.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/info_260700.html

They're not even cheap, they're 28 quid!

Ultra cheap (to make) copy of the LN design.

BugBear

 

[JohnPW]

The Chronos/Soba/Axminster one does look a bit unusual in that the slot runs all the way from front to back without anything going across it at the bottom.

 

[Rhossydd]

You can make the base wider and/or longer by attaching it to a piece of wood.

and sometimes it's nice just to have a good tool that doesn't need anything else kludged onto it.

 

[MIGNAL]

The cheap small router planes sold by Chronos

I hadn't seen those, and now I wish I hadn't.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/info_260700.html

They're not even cheap, they're 28 quid!

Ultra cheap (to make) copy of the LN design.

BugBear

Well I suppose compared to the LN at near £75, it is.
I don't understand the 'problem' with this cross support. Going by the pictures I doubt that there is any flex in the base.
The only thing I might be worried about is that the cutting edge doesn't go to the very front of the base (it doesn't on the Stanley). Not that I've ever needed that facility.
The review of the Veritas is mixed on the Axminster site. Two people having problems with the cutter spinning and one who hasn't experienced that.
I'll stick with my Stanley with the grooved cutter.

 

[Rhossydd]

I don't understand the 'problem' with this cross support. Going by the pictures I doubt that there is any flex in the base.

It's not an issue with flex at all.
Just imagine trying to increase the depth of a groove on thin stock, say a 6mm groove in 18mm. Pretty standard panelled door spec. The Chronos/Axminster cheapie has a gap 15mm+ along the entire base, that leaves barely more than a millimetre of the plane's sole on each side to support the cut. With the cross support on the Veritas there's plenty of support across the entire width in two large areas. Stability > control > quality of finish.
If the groove wasn't in the centre of the stock, or just close to an edge, you might not have any support on one side at all.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But a 6mm groove in an 18mm board isn't what the tool is designed for, surely. It doesn't need to do it well.

 

[Rhossydd]

But a 6mm groove in an 18mm board isn't what the tool is designed for, surely.

It's not cutting a 6mm groove, just tidying it up, maybe increasing the depth a tiny bit. Did you read the OP ?

 

[bugbear]

I don't understand the 'problem' with this cross support. Going by the pictures I doubt that there is any flex in the base.

It's not an issue with flex at all.
Just imagine trying to increase the depth of a groove on thin stock, say a 6mm groove in 18mm. Pretty standard panelled door spec. The Chronos/Axminster cheapie has a gap 15mm+ along the entire base, that leaves barely more than a millimetre of the plane's sole on each side to support the cut. With the cross support on the Veritas there's plenty of support across the entire width in two large areas. Stability > control > quality of finish.
If the groove wasn't in the centre of the stock, or just close to an edge, you might not have any support on one side at all.

Ah - I finally see what you're trying to say.

You won't like the LN either. :wink:

In fact the Veritas is the only one with your "cross support" in the middle of the sole as well as on one long-face.

The Stanley and Record have it only on one long-face, and the LN (and knockoffs) have none.

I guess people haven't been using them along narrow edges.

BugBear