Slow slogging kitchen cabinets

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D_W

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For the last couple of years, I've been fighting no desire to finish my kitchen cabinets for various reasons - mostly because my spouse is non-supportive to say the least - conflict of time with kids, etc. I have to admit that now that I'm almost done, I have just as little desire to strip the kitchen walls and floor and put new of both in (though I'd LOVE to do it if I was retired and didn't have other time conflicts).

I've made 9 cabinets so far, typical face frame design. Plywood back and sides and the drawers are just poplar boxes with cherry fronts attached. The doors will be raised panel (and the cabinets are capped with those on the visible ends, too). Haven't decided on countertops, but would like to do wood. The mrs. says no way. Cost is the root of our argument about what the countertops will be. I value funding kids' college and retirement above stylish kitchen).

https://s24.postimg.org/aely2nkth/P1100022.jpg

While I don't have much interest in building these, and haven't since the first one, I will admit that it is kind of nice to do some of the stuff like bang-it-out dovetails in the poplar drawers. Gluing up dadoed cabinets without a clamp like you'd have in a cabinet factory is a bit of a pain, though.

The drawers aren't glued in this picture, and the black lines on the pins are just pencil marks.
 
I also like an idea of a wooden counter-top. Quarter sawn Ash or could look great, but probably not with cherry cabinets. One could almost refinish them on semi regular schedule if they get messy. Hard to beat formica for a cost though. I am also supposed to fix up our kitchen, but cannot muster any interest in it. Current one works well, but is probably 50 years old. Formica counter tops are still going strong though. I just hope that sixties come back in style:)
 
D_W":me7pyp38 said:
For the last couple of years, I've been fighting no desire to finish my kitchen cabinets for various reasons - mostly because my spouse is non-supportive to say the least - conflict of time with kids, etc. I have to admit that now that I'm almost done, I have just as little desire to strip the kitchen walls and floor and put new of both in (though I'd LOVE to do it if I was retired and didn't have other time conflicts).

I've made 9 cabinets so far, typical face frame design. Plywood back and sides and the drawers are just poplar boxes with cherry fronts attached. The doors will be raised panel (and the cabinets are capped with those on the visible ends, too). Haven't decided on countertops, but would like to do wood. The mrs. says no way. Cost is the root of our argument about what the countertops will be. I value funding kids' college and retirement above stylish kitchen).

https://s24.postimg.org/aely2nkth/P1100022.jpg

While I don't have much interest in building these, and haven't since the first one, I will admit that it is kind of nice to do some of the stuff like bang-it-out dovetails in the poplar drawers. Gluing up dadoed cabinets without a claim like you'd have in a cabinet factory is a bit of a pain, though.

The drawers aren't glued in this picture, and the black lines on the pins are just pencil marks.

David, stop dragging your feet! What your wife is probably moaning about is the amount of time you play with planes and sharpening, and make videos instead of building the cabinets! :D

Change your mindset .. see the plywood face frames as an opportunity to test the durability of different blade life. See the Poplar dovetails as a challenge to chop the baselines in one stroke, and paring endgrain as a test of chisel sharpness as measured by the various stones you collect! :lol:

I am in the process of giving our kitchen a facelift. We built the house 20 years ago and everything is a little tired now. In contrast to yours, we are going from raised panels to simple Shaker. The wood is going from Tasmanian Oak to USA Hard Maple. I plan to finish in a water-based poly to retain the light colour - trying to avoid any yellowing.

Here are examples ...

1-3_zpsivdoewxc.jpg


12a_zpsapjld2z9.jpg


So far I have completed 12 of 22 doors, and am in the process of assembling the rest ..

1_zpsgvekhpet.jpg


The reason I have not posted this here is that the joinery is Festool Domino. I bought the smaller 500 just for this job. I really do not wish to spend my life making mortice and tenons for doors that have a lifespan of about 20 years (owing to fashion rather than quality). Dimensioning with power is the order of the day.

Still, I can use the bench for work holding ...

6a_zpsjeqia4x6.jpg


... and I do use handtools throughout where possible ..

4a_zps7yn21s7g.jpg


I do note a mitre saw in your shop. How are you dimensioning your wood?

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Common down here is maple for counter tops if the cabinets are Cherry. I agree on refinishing them, they'd get abused here, but the refinish job would be an easy one. A friend has relatively pedestrian cherry cabinets with 8/4 maple counter tops on the cabinets on the back side of his kitchen and they look great (he has granite on the front side, I guess that's the standard now).

My old cabinets are varnished birch. They're new enough to have a KCMA sticker on them, but they are a 60s/70s style, as is the formica. Doesn't look high-end, of course, but it sure has held up. I figure that formica for the kitchen will probably be about $300 or so, and in a neighborhood of $200k houses, it's the smart fiscal decision.

I browsed kitchen materials today and can hardly believe how easy some of the stuff has been made (the low-cost stuff, that is). Flooring that is self-stick with no underlayment, countertops that are pre-cut for connectors at the miters (maybe that was common before).
 
Interesting that Maple is used for countertops in your area. I find the wood quite soft - that is, relative to my local West Aussie woods. But the Maple is sooo nice to work with. Tight grained, easy to plane, a few reversals that will catch out a jointer, but otherwise completely stress-free.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
D_W":1pnxk0iv said:
For the last couple of years, I've been fighting no desire to finish my kitchen cabinets for various reasons - mostly because my spouse is non-supportive to say the least - conflict of time with kids, etc. I have to admit that now that I'm almost done, I have just as little desire to strip the kitchen walls and floor and put new of both in (though I'd LOVE to do it if I was retired and didn't have other time conflicts).

I've made 9 cabinets so far, typical face frame design. Plywood back and sides and the drawers are just poplar boxes with cherry fronts attached. The doors will be raised panel (and the cabinets are capped with those on the visible ends, too). Haven't decided on countertops, but would like to do wood. The mrs. says no way. Cost is the root of our argument about what the countertops will be. I value funding kids' college and retirement above stylish kitchen).

https://s24.postimg.org/aely2nkth/P1100022.jpg

While I don't have much interest in building these, and haven't since the first one, I will admit that it is kind of nice to do some of the stuff like bang-it-out dovetails in the poplar drawers. Gluing up dadoed cabinets without a claim like you'd have in a cabinet factory is a bit of a pain, though.

The drawers aren't glued in this picture, and the black lines on the pins are just pencil marks.

David, stop dragging your feet! What your wife is probably moaning about is the amount of time you play with planes and sharpening, and make videos instead of building the cabinets! :D

Change your mindset .. see the plywood face frames as an opportunity to test the durability of different blade life. See the Poplar dovetails as a challenge to chop the baselines in one stroke, and paring endgrain as a test of chisel sharpness as measured by the various stones you collect! :lol:

I am in the process of giving our kitchen a facelift. We built the house 20 years ago and everything is a little tired now. In contrast to yours, we are going from raised panels to simple Shaker. The wood is going from Tasmanian Oak to USA Hard Maple. I plan to finish in a water-based poly to retain the light colour - trying to avoid any yellowing.

Here are examples ...

1-3_zpsivdoewxc.jpg


12a_zpsapjld2z9.jpg


So far I have completed 12 of 22 doors, and am in the process of assembling the rest ..

1_zpsgvekhpet.jpg


The reason I have not posted this here is that the joinery is Festool Domino. I bought the smaller 500 just for this job. I really do not wish to spend my life making mortice and tenons for doors that have a lifespan of about 20 years (owing to fashion rather than quality). Dimensioning with power is the order of the day.

Still, I can use the bench for work holding ...

6a_zpsjeqia4x6.jpg


... and I do use handtools throughout where possible ..

4a_zps7yn21s7g.jpg


I do note a mitre saw in your shop. How are you dimensioning your wood?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, I do have a small portable table saw and a thickness planer. I have hand dimensioned (thicknessed and sawed) about half of the wood and power dimensioned the other half, just depending on what I felt like doing. All of it had to be hand jointed. There's definitely less surprise with hand dimensioning (not from the planer, but from the cheapie table saw), certainly some of the drawer sides aren't identical thickness (though each is uniform thickness, they just aren't all exactly the same), which slowed down the dovetailing a little bit as it prevented cutting tails in pairs.

As the kids get older, I have less time in the shop, but I have thoroughly enjoyed doing quite a lot of the dimensioning by hand, and the plywood that I got is a softwood ply and very easy to plane if cut a hair large - easy to hand saw, too - but requires some reinforcement where it will be screwed into the wall. (I forgot about the track saw and the festool router, those have been helpful).

Only M&T'd the face frames, as the doors are done on a freud router bit set - cope and stick, I suppose. I wish I'd have gone with flat panel, some of my doors are large and I think as time goes on with woodworking, I've come to appreciate things that are lighter. My current cabinet doors are thick, but the back half of them is hollow. I'm sure it was a material savings for the maker to do them that way, but it's miles easier on the cabinets, too.

I don't begrudge power tool use on this stuff at all, it's utility (kitchen cabinets, that is). I chose to do a bunch of grunt work by hand because it tickles my gaba receptors like a good run or bike ride and I see the appreciation that my grandfather had for breaking a sweat (in his words, the only way to clear your head is to break a sweat). There are a million ways to get this done faster than i did. My wife requested drawers with guides, which I don't really like - they could've been pinned together and would've worked fine, but I do like to dovetail drawers and cases as sort of a nice repetition job where there is no real possible penalty (the drawer overlay will keep the dovetails in the front hidden when the drawers are closed, and the back ones will never be seen).

(You should've seen some of the stuff we built at a cabinet factory where I worked while I was in college - hot glued drawers made with dust that had a tape covering all over it that really didn't even look like wood, and they were "mid-range cabinets" at the time. That was in the late 1990s, and by far the most popular cabinet material was honey oak flat panel, next was thermofoil MDF white cabinets - we had flat panel maple at the time, but it hadn't quite come in yet and light and dark raised and flat panel maples were only about 15% of the orders - I thought they looked better back then, though and I was no woodworker at the time).

As a separate mention, my wife mentioned that she wants my utilitarian chest of drawers to be replaced, so my favorite piece of furniture that I didn't even make is now on the outs in return for something larger. I favor making something like you showed in that thread, and I'm glad you showed it. The most agonizing part for me of most builds (aside from the kitchen cabinets here) is settling on something relatively modest looking that is tasteful and that doesn't look like - for lack of a better way to put it - the first project for every power tool worker with no curves or ugly curves and lots of bulk.
 
Interesting that Maple is used for countertops in your area. I find the wood quite soft - that is, relative to my local West Aussie woods. But the Maple is sooo nice to work with. Tight grained, easy to plane, a few reversals that will catch out a jointer, but otherwise completely stress-free.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hard maple here is probably 1400 janka or something, but soft maple is also common. I'm not up on all of the scientific names like Warren is, but the soft maple is about as hard as soft cherry - that is what my friend used. Definitely soft for a countertop, I sprayed it with lacquer for him since it's for a dry area that really doesn't get any traffic.

It would definitely all be nice to work compared to 2000+ hardness woods that are interlocked, though I don't find hard maple to be very nice to dimension by hand (it smooth planes nicely).
 
yelts":7o8s6pdb said:
I can never work maple always tearout, any tips would be grateful thanks

Look up any tutorial online for setting the cap iron close. I think the English woodworker has a nice video tutorial on YouTube. Should make planing most maple pretty easy.
 
D_W":377zu1p3 said:
yelts":377zu1p3 said:
I can never work maple always tearout, any tips would be grateful thanks

Look up any tutorial online for setting the cap iron close. I think the English woodworker has a nice video tutorial on YouTube. Should make planing most maple pretty easy.

Agreed.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
David, Derek, good work! Makes me want to sort my kitchen out, along with a 100 other things!
 
I built the kitchen in our current house. My wife wanted a Shaker style face frame arrangement, but I was a bit concerned that the whole Shaker thing (which after all was already well into its stride by the late 90's) was close to joining knotty pine, black Ash, and turned legs in the style graveyard, however five years on and Shaker still seems to be chugging along. In hindsight I think that was the right call, it's an Edwardian property and the German laboratory look that I wanted might not have blended in quite so well.

Kitchen-1.jpg


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I talked with a few furniture makers I know who do kitchens in order to pay the bills. Okay, they generally had bigger workshops and more fitted furniture experience, but I had the same panel saw with scoring blade, biscuit jointer, Lamello Cantex, and Domino machine that they all seemed to use. So when they said they'd budget four or five weeks for the build I thought I'd be safe with six or seven weeks and faithfully promised my wife that this deadline would be hit.

Ho, ho, ho.

Nine weeks later and I was getting the serious hurry up. So it was time to trim a few hours off the plan, some of the more elaborate cabinet fit outs got ditched, I had planned on sinking the butt hinge barrels into the beading but instead I just planted them on (which upsets me very day when I see them, they're tidy enough but it's just not the same), the scrubbed Sycamore worktops got replaced with ready made Oak with an Osmo finish, and the hand painting was abandoned in favour of borrowing a Fuji Mini Mite and spraying the lot.

Still it all got done and none of the doors have fallen off so far. More seriously, a lot of knowledgeable people told me I'd regret wooden work surfaces because they'll blacken around the sink, warp above the dish washer, and split all over. I took the gamble and so far it's paid off, there are some tiny splits around the cooker, but you'd have to know they were there before you'd notice them.

I really don't know how the kitchen specialists achieve the build times they do, perhaps I overbuilt and fussed over the details more than needed in a few areas, but basically I guess it comes down to experience. All the times when I'd stop for a coffee and a ponder they'd be powering on, and over the course of a full build those minutes add up.
 

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Thinking about it, build times really must just be down to experience. Shortly after the kitchen I built us a break front bookcase plus a couple of alcove units, basically it was the same sheet goods case work so I could re-use a lot of the jigs and fixtures I'd made for the kitchen job and this one came in well under the scheduled time.

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So the best thing Dave would be to tell your wife you'll be starting a second big fitted project the very moment the kitchen's done!
 

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Looks superb, Custard. You're right, my wife has a few wants (including some built-ins in the living room) after the kitchen is done, but two little kids running around her legs in circles keeps her from having much time to make demands.

Ditto on the timing, if you did ten of them, I'm sure you'd do the tenth one in half the time or less.

I like the wooden work surfaces, they look human rather than industrial (maybe that's just me). I have heard a lot of suggestions over time from various people about "this or that" won't hold up in the long term, and as discussed above, stuff like formica certainly holds up very well without maintenance. But in our case, the repairman lives in the house, so if something needs to be repaired, it isn't this terminal fear of junking everything.
 
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Hopefully I'll be doing mine this year. It'll be something like the above mock ups that a guy did for me. I'll probably make the lot as I get a good price on Egger mfc and I'd like to make slab doors with a recessed handle not the handles shown. Just need to get a good paint guy to spray the doors for me.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
 
That's exactly the German laboratory that I wanted to build but that my wife vetoed. Zero overhangs to counter tops, precision scribing, I love it.

You're right about no handles by the way, drawer pulls and Teutonic hygiene don't mix!
 
custard":1cuvayuo said:
That's exactly the German laboratory that I wanted to build but that my wife vetoed. Zero overhangs to counter tops, precision scribing, I love it.

You're right about no handles by the way, drawer pulls and Teutonic hygiene don't mix!
You'd like this one I did last year then totally handleless, 3 ovens, coffee machine, induction hob, pop up extractor, etc etc etc

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Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
 
Very nice Custard. While our doors are both Shaker style, our kitchen designs are quite different. I could happily live with yours. It has a calming feel. I'll post before/after pics of ours at some stage. Just too much to do. I am on leave at the moment (summer in Perth and everyone is on holiday), and using as much of my time in the workshop. It is amazing how much there is to do, as you found. I think that our downfall is that we attend to all the small details, as if it were fine furniture.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Nice work gents! Chippy I like the style of that kitchen quite a bit.

David, coming along beautifully, and you're certain to have the only kitchen with hand cut dovetailed drawers in the area.

My major gripe with stone counters are those awful round-overs, when I do my kitchen, if I'm restricted to keeping our current granite counters, which is likely, I will bring them to a fabricator and have them cut back to zero overhang, squared off and just very light 1/4" round-overs on the top edge.

I'd rather architectural soap stone counter. If/when I do the bathrooms I will use soap stone, since we currently have some plastic crap that no one will shed a tear over when I saw into pieces and put it on the curb.
 
D_W":2zjeywhl said:
yelts":2zjeywhl said:
I can never work maple always tearout, any tips would be grateful thanks

Look up any tutorial online for setting the cap iron close. I think the English woodworker has a nice video tutorial on YouTube. Should make planing most maple pretty easy.

Thanks for that much better results today
 

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