Shelving supports grain direction

[markblue777]

Hi all,
I am making a few pine shelves at the moment for the front room and i am going to make some shelf supports out of pine as well so it all fits together nicely (so no metal this is hanging off the wall)

My question is what grain direction should I cut the supports to get the best strength. Should I try to keep the grain parallel to the wall?

The longest shelf is around 1200mm and about 250mm wide

The design is not final for the shelf supports but i like the following (but it is up to the misses in the end)

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Small-Decora...==/$T2eC16VHJGYE9nooiLgbBQduO5kt8Q~~60_12.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Pair-of-Wood...kc/$(KGrHqNHJBkFJv861KyDBSfjkc(+jw~~60_12.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Wooden-Corbe...Q=/$(KGrHqYOKo0E5kuJJyVrBOfchG12sw~~60_12.JPG

would any of these types of design effect how i should have the grain? or am i just worrying about nothing.

Cheers
Mark

 

[NickWelford]

Diagonal?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

There's quite a few variables here because those designs are quite different, 2 are scrolled or profiled pieces whereas one is a gallows bracket actually made from 3 pieces. But in the main and as a general rule imagine the wood is actually a bunch of straws. If you stand those straws on their ends straight up then they will hold the most load directly on top pressing down onto the open ends. If you put a load on their middle they would more likely buckle. So the general rule is to cut thin stock so the grain (straws) is running along its length. Then in your design, particularly the scrolled pieces, orient the board so the grain will run up into the base of the shelf. To be honest, as long as the bracket is thick enough as in those scrolled pieces it isn't going to matter that much as they'll be plenty strong enough. It certainly doesn't matter for the gallows brackets as their strength is derived by the formation of a triangle, a classic construction design used timelessly in bridges, roofing etc over centuries.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Here's some oak gallows brackets I made for exactly the same job as you're doing. For extra strength I housed one of the joints. Grain direction as you would expect ie along each member.

 

[markblue777]

I was thinking that but then I done some looking around on the net and it said diagonal grain wood is quite weak.
I thought it would be strong as you have a natural triangle going on with it as the force is distributed through the grain to the wall.

actually thinking about it after that my line about I think diagonal would be best.

 

[markblue777]

Hi thanks for the run through bob that makes sense.

With the gallows do you do a screw through top and bottom to mount the wall then one through the top to secure the shelf?

I would prefer the shelf fixed really as I don't want a loose board falling onto one of the kids if they happen to hold onto it to get something

Cheers
Mark

 

[Benchwayze]

You answered your own question with the last line of your post Mark. Secure the shelves with a screw. I usually screw up through the bracket, using some kind of screw-cap for appearance sake. Although, You could put one screw in the middle of the shelf, through a slightly enlarged hole (shrinkage) into the support underneath. They are easier to get a screwdriver to, and the screw will be covered up eventually by books or whatever.

HTH

Cheers

 

[markblue777]

great, thanks benchwayze

 

[Benchwayze]

great, thanks benchwayze

Mon plaisir

 

[markblue777]

great, thanks benchwayze

Mon plaisir

I'm sorry but i'm not taking you London's oldest French restaurant (http://www.monplaisir.co.uk/)

 

[Brian½]

Mark, I freely admit to knowing nothing about woodworking, but would it be possible to use dowels let into the top of the brackets and the shelf lowered onto them ?

 

[Brian½]

Bob, love the grain on those oak brackets you made.

 

[Benchwayze]

great, thanks benchwayze

Mon plaisir

I'm sorry but i'm not taking you London's oldest French restaurant (http://www.monplaisir.co.uk/)

Thank Heavens. :mrgreen: I don't like French Cuisine.. Esp not Escargot and ambes de grenouilles! :mrgreen:

 

[markblue777]

Haha, works out well then benchwayze.

Yeah Brian thats what i was thinking

 

[Benchwayze]

Mark..

Depending on how permanent you want your shelves to be:
You could epoxy some lengths of metal studding in the wall and drill corresponding holes in the rear of the shelf.
The shelf would then be suspended, apparently on nothing, and you do away with the interference of the wall brackets. Usually shelves fixed like this are thicker at least 1.25 inches (30mm) thick.

Just a thought. (Take advantage of it. I don't have them very often!) :mrgreen:

 

[markblue777]

Mark..

Depending on how permanent you want your shelves to be:
You could epoxy some lengths of metal studding in the wall and drill corresponding holes in the rear of the shelf.
The shelf would then be suspended, apparently on nothing, and you do away with the interference of the wall brackets. Usually shelves fixed like this are thicker at least 1.25 inches (30mm) thick.

Just a thought. (Take advantage of it. I don't have them very often!) :mrgreen:

Yeah i was thinking about doing this but was not sure how thick i would need the shelf to be (now I know due to your reply) but 30mm is to much for the shelf really as it would look a little odd. The shelf will be shaped (to a design the misses has yet to do) and due to this 30mm would look too thick I believe.

I showed the misses some designs for shelf supports and she has gone for the gallows style brackets. Going to be shamelessly copying your design here Benchwayze as I like to housed joint for the bottom runner

Cheers
Mark

 

[Benchwayze]

Mark. The Credit isn't mine! The oak brackets weren't my design .

When I made gallows-brackets, I just dovetailed the upright and the bearer, and then screwed some support diagonals across them; as they were just for my workshop. (Since replaced with 'Spur' metal shelving system.) And about to be replaced by the 2x1 batten system.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Hi thanks for the run through bob that makes sense.

With the gallows do you do a screw through top and bottom to mount the wall then one through the top to secure the shelf?

I would prefer the shelf fixed really as I don't want a loose board falling onto one of the kids if they happen to hold onto it to get something

Cheers
Mark

Have a close look at the in situ snap (zoom in) and you'll see there are 2 screws holding the gallows to the wall which in my case is plaster over sand and cement over block work so great for a brown plug/7mm bit and about 21/2 inch screw. There is then another screw holding shelf onto each bracket from underside so invisible to shelf surface ie bracket into underside of shelf. As can be seen, also over my sons desk so equally wasn't wild about them falling on him.

 

[markblue777]

Hi Bob / all,
Well I finished my shelves (a week ago ish but not had much time to get one here as I have been helping my uncle sort his new house out)

here are some rough pic's I have on my phone but I will aim to get some better ones up

Pleased with how they turned out and everyone has commented on how nice they look and where they can buy them so that's a nice feeling.

(sorry some of the pics are blurry, but it should give you the idea :wink: )

Pre-finish but up on the wall test fit

all up and with stuff on them (picture taken from an artsy angle :wink: )

couple of blurry pics of the 2 of the shelves

they were finished with Rustins Quick Dry Varnish in an Antique Pine. The brackets had 4 coats and the shelves 3, the shelves also had some beeswax to make them shine a little.

Cheers
Mark