sharpening stones

[lurcher]

over the summer i was at many bootsales and collected some fantastic natural stones ie charnley forest £1.00
several washita stones and some others i have spent a couple of days cleaning and flattening them and well am blown away washita stone Zilch-Wedlock over all my jap stones and my diamond stones and the very very high pollish from the charnley well that woul be fantastic for straight razors .
you realy should start to look for them now before they get to popular give them a try you might just get a supprise.

 

[D_W]

I am also a big fan of the washita. Huge fan. Great stone.

Charnley's don't come cheap over here in the states, but once in a while you can luck across a true hard arkansas.

 

[bugbear]

Charnley's don't come cheap over here in the states, but once in a while you can luck across a true hard arkansas.

Beware the lure of the exotic import ... over here we dream of cheap Arkansas, whilst you dream of cheap Charnley.

BugBear

 

[D_W]

Yes, I've had a decent charn (for razors), but hear they're very variable. Generally the hard arks are pretty expensive here if they are a vintage black or a translucent. Charns are rare on the ground, though, and ebay is making everything harder to get for cheap.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Ah, but my key to a "probably" good stone at flea markets (or boot sales over there!), is to search out those stones that the owners thought enough of and had taken the time to make nice enclosures. When looking, I try to remove the stone to get "look-see" at the condition of the stone hidden the bottom of the box, and make sure it is not a laminated concoction (like an coarse india over a fine). Also, I look to see the style of hollowing the box (think-look for tell-tale signs of a center point bit). A fairly tight mottled appearance is generally an indication the stone may be a washita (if there are veins, I generally stay away, as the stone is probably a cheaper grade and probably a soft arkansas). Lily whites seem to be more of a tan, after years of use & oil (I have a never used lily white and it is not pure as the driven snow, but more of a blushing pinkish brown).

With all of that said, stones can be had very cheap. I've picked up a number of washita's, black & transparent hard arkansas stones for a couple of bucks each (and they're still pretty common, if you look). I have some I have paid a great deal more for, but in those cases, it was because I was buying the case (I've started "accumulating" cased stones).

I wouldn't take any new stone given to me today as a washita as no one in the states is mining them today. About a year or so ago, I spoke directly to the people at Dan's Whetstones and they indicated with large enough interest, they would do a run. Dan's makes as good a product on the market at a very competitive price. All new stones need to be used a bit to break in (which brings up my final point in looking for a used stone: give the stone a fingernail test! smooth is better! Coarse is probably an old carborundum coarse stone, loaded up with swarf & oil, deceiving you to think that it is a fine natural stone).

 

[bugbear]

When looking, I try to remove the stone to get "look-see" at the condition of the stone hidden the bottom of the box, and make sure it is not a laminated concoction (like an coarse india over a fine). Also, I look to see the style of hollowing the box (think-look for tell-tale signs of a center point bit).

Older (e.g. pre 1900) stones only had a single flat face; both sides and bottom were straight from the quarry; they were fitted into a case by roughly hand carving the cavity, and then sitting the stone on a bed of plaster of paris. You can't (easily...) get them out.

BugBear

 

[Mike.S]

Older (e.g. pre 1900) stones only had a single flat face; both sides and bottom were straight from the quarry; they were fitted into a case by roughly hand carving the cavity, and then sitting the stone on a bed of plaster of paris. You can't (easily...) get them out.

BugBear

I have one that's 'plastered' in. Tried slipping a thin metal edge round the sides but it doesn't want to move. Any tips/tricks or is it brute force (and risk damaging the box)?

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I've found a few like Bugbear has described, a few I've gotten out by spraying a lubricant such as WD-40 to dissolve some of the swarf. A few have bottoms as BB described. I have a few that are simply too tight to dislodge and I leave them alone-chance of damaging the stone or the box.

 

[D_W]

Ah, but my key to a "probably" good stone at flea markets (or boot sales over there!), is to search out those stones that the owners thought enough of and had taken the time to make nice enclosures. When looking, I try to remove the stone to get "look-see" at the condition of the stone hidden the bottom of the box, and make sure it is not a laminated concoction (like an coarse india over a fine). Also, I look to see the style of hollowing the box (think-look for tell-tale signs of a center point bit). A fairly tight mottled appearance is generally an indication the stone may be a washita (if there are veins, I generally stay away, as the stone is probably a cheaper grade and probably a soft arkansas). Lily whites seem to be more of a tan, after years of use & oil (I have a never used lily white and it is not pure as the driven snow, but more of a blushing pinkish brown).

With all of that said, stones can be had very cheap. I've picked up a number of washita's, black & transparent hard arkansas stones for a couple of bucks each (and they're still pretty common, if you look). I have some I have paid a great deal more for, but in those cases, it was because I was buying the case (I've started "accumulating" cased stones).

I wouldn't take any new stone given to me today as a washita as no one in the states is mining them today. About a year or so ago, I spoke directly to the people at Dan's Whetstones and they indicated with large enough interest, they would do a run. Dan's makes as good a product on the market at a very competitive price. All new stones need to be used a bit to break in (which brings up my final point in looking for a used stone: give the stone a fingernail test! smooth is better! Coarse is probably an old carborundum coarse stone, loaded up with swarf & oil, deceiving you to think that it is a fine natural stone).

I think your flea markets are better up there, tony!! I only have one flea market down here within good reach (trader jacks), and I've gotten a couple of barber hones, but no good natural stones.

One of the problems there when I went regularly was that there was a guy setting up a booth who liquidated anything good from folks showing up with tools, put it in his truck, and then sold his own stuff later.

Far as dan's goes, I have one of their washita stones. I talked to someone there who had to hang up several times and go talk to Dan They said they didn't have access to the pike mine stuff at the time, and that their stone was different (and it is), but I said I'd see what something that was that low density would be like because I've already got a lot of true washitas. I don't know if you've gotten their washita, it's a strange fragile very low density arkansas. I'll admit I haven't used mine enough to know if the fragility may be an asset. At the time, I was buying a seconds 8x2x1 black that they had for $90. I still can't find what they think is second rate about it, their fine stones are fantastic.

(I like the ones with nice boxes, too. My favorite is a fast cutting (but fine cutting) stone that came in a box and someone went to the trouble to hand write a card and affix it in the top of the box, telling a brief history of the man who used it to make a living - he had carved his name and a few details on the top, too).

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Dave,

I'm only about 90 miles north of you (and the real honey-holes are located several hours east of us in the area where you were born!).

I've never tried Dan's washita stones and don't knowingly own anything that may have been mined by the company. What is currently sold in the states as a washita is not similar to a vintage Pike. I bought a 6 X 2 X 1 black from Dan's that was dirt cheap and excellent. I seldom mention "regretting" anything, but I do regret about a decade or so ago being interested only in "Scary Sharp" and waterstones (nothing wrong with either, if they trip your trigger) with that interest causing me to ignore Nortion that at the time was still mining & selling washita's. Whether those recent washita's were of the same quality as those from a couple of generations ago, is anyone's guess.

Norton, IIRC, used to say their medium india (artificial oilstone) was their replacement for their washita.

 

[D_W]

Dave,

I'm only about 90 miles north of you (and the real honey-holes are located several hours east of us in the area where you were born!).

I've never tried Dan's washita stones and don't knowingly own anything that may have been mined by the company. What is currently sold in the states as a washita is not similar to a vintage Pike. I bought a 6 X 2 X 1 black from Dan's that was dirt cheap and excellent. I seldom mention "regretting" anything, but I do regret about a decade or so ago being interested only in "Scary Sharp" and waterstones (nothing wrong with either, if they trip your trigger) with that interest causing me to ignore Nortion that at the time was still mining & selling washita's. Whether those recent washita's were of the same quality as those from a couple of generations ago, is anyone's guess.

Norton, IIRC, used to say their medium india (artificial oilstone) was their replacement for their washita.

I was in the same boat (as to what I was interested in), less the scary sharp. I wanted waterstones and fine pastes and powders. It was fun, I guess. I saw those same washitas and thought that they were expensive at $80 or $100. I'm not sure how fast TFWW sold them, but I have literally never seen one for sale.

Also, I've had some boxed norton and behr manning stones that were just labeled "washita", without being no 1 or lilywhite. They were very fine cutting stones, and I'd think that's why they didn't make the cut to be any of the prior two. But norton called those that Joel was selling Lilywhite, so they were probably low density and coarse like most would want.

I agree on where I came from - there's plenty of old stuff still collecting dust. I think the best way to probably get it is to go to estate sales and such. Over in New Oxford there are a lot of shops, but they're picked through, and sadly, the ones that used to be fun to go to (because they didn't just have high priced stuff) are starting to close.

I just rarely have situations where I can get away for an extended period of time because of the kids.

(I've seen recently where someone else said they had the "washita" that dans sells - I'd imagine they probably wouldn't be given permission to take stones off of the pike mine property, but the washita stones come off in huge amounts and there is still plenty there. It's not like the hard arks where you're trying to take a bunch of irregular shards and get something out of them that has no cracks - the old pictures of the pike washita mine describe pieces something like several hundred pounds to a ton. I have to assume that once a couple of us enthusiasts bought a stone of our choice, even if the mining was allowed, the volume would soon again slow to a crawl).

 

[Sean Hellman]

Older (e.g. pre 1900) stones only had a single flat face; both sides and bottom were straight from the quarry; they were fitted into a case by roughly hand carving the cavity, and then sitting the stone on a bed of plaster of paris. You can't (easily...) get them out.

BugBear

I have one that's 'plastered' in. Tried slipping a thin metal edge round the sides but it doesn't want to move. Any tips/tricks or is it brute force (and risk damaging the box)?

Thats, easy I turn the stone upside down supporting the stone with my hand and tap the end of the wooden box against a hard surface. 99% of the time they pop out. All Charnley stones I have come across have a smooth face on one side only. They where hewn out of larger pieces apparently using something like a stock knife. I am glad I was not one of the guys ding this and then flattening the stone. They were then hawked around the jewel and cutlers quarters of the cities, all self employed one man bands. Lovely stone and related to the Arkansas as they are both novolite.