Sharpening slicks question

[AJB Temple]

My slicks are 3" and 4" Robert Sorby. I am wondering if I am quite getting the sharpening optimised. The backs are flat (not hollow) and the tops are quite pronounced domes (convex). Therefore there is no flat face to hold on the table on the pro edge and freehand on this tool it is very easy to dig in accidentally and strip the belt. Therefore I tend to sharpen freehand on a white grindstone (which is fine). Am I missing something here?

Secondly, I generally put a microbevel on chisels and have been doing that even on my big mortise chisels that I use for cleaning up after the chain mortiser or the circular saw has roughed out the tenons in my (spare time) green oak project. I know people don't usually do this but I prefer it as I can get a very fine trimming cut and I am fussy.

I don't know, being mainly a cack handed wood stabber, if slicks have a micro bevel but I am pretty sure not. However I have been putting one on mine and it is very difficult to do evenly because of the domed top. Does anyone have a quick trick to make this easier? The slick is sharpened every day or two (or when I drop it on the concrete....let's not go there) versus twice a day for the other chisels which are getting a lot of abuse. I only spend less than ten minutes on each tool sharpening session - we are not talking fine cabinetmaking here.

I have heard of people making jigs for sharpening slicks, but I don't have enough spare time to hand sharpen.

 

[Droogs]

Would using emery paper as in the scary sharp method be any use and just freehand a slight convex full face bevel on the slick be easier than trying to get a defined micro bevel. Just pull the slick at about 25 deg and then slightly raise the handle end to about 30 as you pull intowards yourself at the end of the stroke. Wouldn't imagine you would need to go above 800grit paper-wise.

 

[AJB Temple]

It would take ages Droogs but I appreciate the input. These things are BIG and heavy and have a lot of curvature. I do clean off the back burr on some fine emery but realistically on this kind of tool I am looking to avoid work down time, and get an even edge. I think probably I will have to make a concave cradle (in effect creating a flat top) that allows me to run it across the pro-edge at the end of each day as I am putting the tools away.

I don't know what the proper timber framers do. The slick is not meant to be belted with a hammer so the blade does need to be sharp.

My supposedly green oak most of which has sat in the summer sun for a few months is not as easy and buttery as I expected and there are some burred bits (which are wasted on a timber frame) that are pretty hard.

 

[ED65]

Do the slicks get blunt enough in use that they need proper sharpening daily or might stropping be enough for regular upkeep, with a honing once a week or so?

 

[Jacob]

With the pro-edge you should grind the back of the bevel not right up to the edge at first, then approach the edge only gently

 

[AJB Temple]

One of them is getting a lot of use. I am only working weekends and days off and basically doing a 12 hour day then. I am only really using three chisels - a two inch eBay thing that I bought in a job lot for about a tenner, is probably pre war and fantastic It needed a full regrind and sharpen and polish but is now a great tool), a big pig sticker mortice chisel (same job lot) and the big slick, which is fantastic for cutting the tenons (which are roughed out with the circular saw). The slick will go days without sharpening in normal use, but I am using it for paring and chamfering and for that I need a sharp edge. Some of the oak is damn hard.

I don't actually bother with stropping. I run a fine grit on the pro edge and just redo the micro bevel as and when needed, usually on all the chisels at the end of the day. Quick flatten off the back on some wet and dry and we are good to go. The slick is a handful on the pro-edge though as the blade edge is curved. it is heavy and wider than the belt. One slight slip and the belt is gone. (To be fair I have only done this once). I actually sharpened it yesterday afternoon with a quick skim over the wheel and a run across the pro edge and it was fine as I was super careful not to dig in. I think I just need to be extra careful.

 

[bugbear]

At the risk of thinking laterally, could the joints not be worked with skew rebates planes and/or badger planes?

BugBear

 

[paulm]

Also thinking laterally, I would be tempted to take the sharpening medium to the slick as it is large in size and a difficult shape eg wet and dry paper on a handheld hone, DMT diafold handheld diamond sharpener etc, these are the kind of thing I and others use on larger knives, axes etc, particularly easy when just refreshing the edge, not for regrinding of course.

 

[AJB Temple]

BugBear - indeed they could...eventually. When I finally get round to starting the timber frame thread you may see what I mean. Say I am cutting a simple tenon on a 8" square oak beam. I do the shoulder cuts with the circular saw set to correct depth and then I have two choices. I can do a series of parallel cuts to the end of the tenon and then chop these out with the slick. I tend to do this if the shoulders are not ever so deep. Or I can turn the beam round and do four cuts (two from each opposing face) ripping along the tenon. This leaves me with a triangular section attaching the waste and I could whip this off with a handsaw but what I usually do is ram the slick in, break off the waste and then pare the triangle back flat with the tenon.

If I have screwed up and need to get rid of mire material, I use an electric unlimited depth rebate plane, set to do fine shavings (as it is easy to get carried away). The slick is also used quite a bit when I am cleaning out mortices that I have cut with the chain morticer. This actually leave a pretty good finish but there is usually some cleaning up needed and the slick or a big chisel is the only thing that will get in there or go deep enough. I also have an electric file which is quite useful for adjusting more complex joints especially when they are in situ or in awkward places.

Paul - yes. I think you are right. I don't have any hand held sharpeners except a really coarse old stone that my grandad used on scythes I believe but I guess I could get a cheap diamond plate for touching up. That is not a bad idea actually.

 

[AndyT]

Not exactly about slicks but it might help. I did a short green woodworking course at Clisset Wood a few years ago and they had a guy there who spent most of his time sharpening the tools for everyone else.
On axes and drawknives he held the tool still and brought the stone to it, freehand. He actually used quite cheap diamond hones, lubricated with WD40, working in a circular motion along the edge. I think you could treat a slick the same way.

If the cutting edge is held still, it's quite easy to keep the angle consistent. It's a bit like using a file. There is a risk of cutting your fingers if you hold the stone wrong but you could reduce the risk by sticking the stone on a thick block or even a long bit of wood. The longer it is, the easier it is to keep it horizontal.

 

[bugbear]

The longer it is, the easier it is to keep it horizontal.

Paging Frankie Howerd, paging Frankie Howerd.

Ooh err missus!

BugBear

 

[paulm]

I would favour one of these http://www.my-tool-shed.co.uk/p10116/DM ... AgQw8P8HAQ

Not the cheapest, but the covers fold back and act as handles which makes all the difference in how easy and accurate they are to use not to mention safety too of course.

The red/green one shown is fine/extra fine and perfect for honing very finely, if you fancy get the black/blue version too and you can do a surprising amount of metal removal with the black in particular.

 

[AJB Temple]

Now you come to mention it I've got one of those in my knife drawer. Used to use it now and again before I got into Japanese knives. Red and blue. Quite old but might be good enough.

 

[ED65]

I don't actually bother with stropping.

I'm suggesting instead of anything else, not as an adjunct.

The thing about stopping would be that you can have it right beside you any time an edge isn't quite as sharp as needed, it doesn't require any jigging to work well and is generally very forgiving if you don't have a perfectly flat and level surface to sharpen on. Most of these are the usual selling points of stropping as it is, but it seems particularly applicable in a situation like this.

Stropping will only work though if the wood doesn't blunt the edge enough in short order that you need proper abrasion to get back to a zero-radius edge.

If stropping wasn't a goer I was also going to suggest running the sharpening media over the edge, it's a very common technique for all sorts of large edge tools where handling them is more cumbersome than handling the sharpening medium.