Scrub plane size

[Carl P]

I've just got lucky with some plane buying which means I have an excess of wooden bench planes. Maybe now is the time to make one into a dedicated scrub, I've looked into it and there seem to be two favoured sizes, roughly a No. 4 or a No.5, with an iron between 1 and 1 1/2" wide. Just wondered if anyone with some experience of them has any advice before I start.

Thanks,

Carl

 

[AndyT]

You may not need to do much making. This is a big generalisation, trying not to get sidetracked, but the normal English usage pattern was generally to use a Jack plane where the European tradition had a scrub plane. The Jack plane would have been 14 to 17 inches long, with an iron about 2" wide, sharpened with a noticeably curved edge. The mouth would have been quite wide, to allow a thick shaving to be taken.

So, what have you got as a starting point? You may just need to grind a curved profile on your iron.

 

[Jacob]

Smaller is better. The idea is to gouge out a series of parallel scoops, deep and narrow, a bit like a controlled adze cut.
1 1/4" blade with a deep camber seems to work well on the ECE version at least.
Compared to steel planes a 3 would be nearest.

 

[denboy]

I use one from time to time, worked diagonally across the grain in a herringbone pattern. Extremely good method and works well with green boards too. I converted a wooden jack plane by grinding the blade to a very curved radius, though of course only the very bottom of the blade does any work. It is important to also relieve the mouth of the plane to correspond with the curve of the blade, to allow through the thick straight shaving which emerges, but I still have not really cracked it and inevitably there is a lot of clearing out to be done when planing. One I made (and left )at my previous employment had a European-style horn-shaped handle at the front which is worth fixing on as the work can be quite heavy, but it is not essential. All the details of how to use a scrub plane to surface timber are in " Tage Frid Teaches Woodwork Book 1- Joinery".
Hope this helps- more on request.

 

[ac445ab]

Smaller is better. The idea is to gouge out a series of parallel scoops, deep and narrow, a bit like a controlled adze cut.
1 1/4" blade with a deep camber seems to work well on the ECE version at least.
Compared to steel planes a 3 would be nearest.

I agree for smaller scrub planes. I have a Ulmia version (ECE like) with 33 mm blade, heavy cambered and seems to me of working by my hands. I prefer it to a modified jack plane (I tried). Scrubbing is a quite hard job and a lighter plane can help.

Ciao
Giuliano

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I tend to go i another direction. These days I cannot often find a reason for a scrub plane. I have the Veritas Scrub, which is an excellent plane - 1 1/2" wide 3/16" thick blade in a 11 1/4" long body. (if you are interested, there is a review comparing it with the Stanley #40 and a woodie: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... Plane.html )

My preference is a longer plane - the traditional jack plane - which is about 15" long and has a blade with an 8" radius (the scrub typically has a 3" radius). You can take an awful lot of timber off in an awful hurry with a plane such as this.

For years I used a Stanley #5 1/2 as I liked the extra heft of this for our local hardwoods. Yes, a light woodie is easier to lift, but I found the ECE-type planes just "bounced" over the grain, while the heavier planes ploughed through it. Something like a battleship

A few years ago I was able to purchase a custom D2 blade - 5/8" thick (!) and 2" wide - and built a jack plane around this. It is now the only jack plane I use. Length is 15". Wood is Mesquite (a gift from the USA).

I would rethink the scrub and grind an 8" curve onto the #5 you have. It should make a sweet, albeit slightly light, jack plane for wasting wood.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Carl P]

Thanks for all your replies, unfortunately I can't quite say what planes I've got as I bought them on fleabay and haven't received them yet But it is a mix of jack/smoother/block wooden planes (and a plough and some moulding planes too!) However I do already have a jack and smoother - I will try the 8" camber on a jack to see how it feels, I will also try something smaller with a 3" radius and only leave 1 1/4" width out of the mouth. I suspect the jack would be adequate for my needs. I also have the body of a small wooden block plane whose mouth has been enlarged at some point in its life, no wedge or iron, but I'll try that out aswell - I've just flattened a couple of boards that were not nearly as flat as I remembered, I ended up using a wooden block plane across the grain for the bulk removal.

Thanks again, really helped to clarify my thoughts,

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Jacob]

I've just had a go with my scrubber. I reckon one of it's purposes (hence the name) is to "scrub" clean a bit of manky old wood such as an old joist, which it does really well.
The actual radius of the camber is about 1 1/4" i.e. diameter roughly equal to 2x blade width. With a workable depth of blade sticking out the actual cut is only about 3/4" wide , but deep. This is very easy to work and material comes off really quickly.
Moving on to a smoother (No 3) the cut is full width i.e. 1 3/4" more than twice as wide and twice as hard to work, but a fine set, so material removal is very slow but very precise. More camber on the no3 would be a good intermediary spec.
Just read Derek's page. I don't agree about the weight. Low weight is a big advantage IMHO.
My plane works well in softwood. For hardwood it works but better would be an even narrower blade with a smaller radius, to get the same effect. But then axe, adze, drawknife, gouge are all available and perhaps preferable.

NB I bought it originally just to see what all the fuss was about - it does come in handy every now and then, once a year perhaps?

 

[GazPal]

Scrub planes tend to work best with narrow irons fitted - sub 1.75" - and a comparatively minimal radial cutting edge introduced to the workpiece. Plane heft can prove helpful if taking a heavier cut across problem timbers, but lighten shaving depth and lighter weight hand planes prove their worth - especially if scrubbing a lot of timber - as their heft is less fatiguing over prolonged periods.

Plane length? For roughing work, short is good, so anything similar in length to a smoothing plane is fine, but use whichever size your comfortable with and you may find longer planes suit your style of working.

I tend to float between several old timber scrub planes and a cast bodied #2 by an anonymous maker, but "British Made". All are short bodied and lightweight.

 

[Carl P]

Thanks once again - I was going to ask about the differences between a scrub and a jack - I realise now that I've been treating the jack like a long smoothing plane, I suspect that with a camber it'll do what I want from it, not necessarily what I'd want from a scrub plane, I think I was conflating their roles a little. When I sort these planes out I might start a thread on what the various wooden planes roles were, and hopefully I won't be so confused!

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Jacob]

Thanks once again - I was going to ask about the differences between a scrub and a jack - I realise now that I've been treating the jack like a long smoothing plane, I suspect that with a camber it'll do what I want from it, not necessarily what I'd want from a scrub plane, I think I was conflating their roles a little. When I sort these planes out I might start a thread on what the various wooden planes roles were, and hopefully I won't be so confused!

Cheerio,

Carl

It's all about camber - the nearer you get to cutting a semi circular trench through the wood the greater the amount of wood removed per unit of blade edge length, (AOTBE which of course they aren't quite). No cap iron mean less resistance, at the cost of a rough cut. The two together mean more waste for less effort and/or greater speed.

 

[Carl P]

Thanks Jacob, it's making sense now - I think the classic scrub plane that you have described will remove more than I needed, incidentally what shape do you use on your jack plane iron? Also, excuse my ignorance, but what does AOTBE stand for?

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[bugbear]

Scrub planes tend to work best with narrow irons fitted - sub 1.75" - and a comparatively minimal radial cutting edge introduced to the workpiece. Plane heft can prove helpful if taking a heavier cut across problem timbers, but lighten shaving depth and lighter weight hand planes prove their worth - especially if scrubbing a lot of timber - as their heft is less fatiguing over prolonged periods.

Plane length? For roughing work, short is good, so anything similar in length to a smoothing plane is fine, but use whichever size your comfortable with and you may find longer planes suit your style of working.

I tend to float between several old timber scrub planes and a cast bodied #2 by an anonymous maker, but "British Made". All are short bodied and lightweight.

Actual iron width doesn't matter too much. With a heavily cambered blade, width of cut is directly dictated by depth of cut. If your iron (or plane) is "too wide", it's just adds a little mass.

If you're converting a metal plane, I would recommend a #4 or bigger - you need room to get a decent grip of the thing, since scrub planes are for brute work.

But (as various posts have intimated) there's a whole spectrum of stock removal planes from "pure" scrub to smoother. Put another way, they're all jack planes, but some are scrubbier than others.

I certainly wouldn't go to the expense of buying a new one - wooden jack planes work in this role very well (conversion optional), and are readily available and cheap.

Here's my version.

http://web.archive.org/web/200908310619 ... scrub.html

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

.....
Actual iron width doesn't matter too much. With a heavily cambered blade, width of cut is directly dictated by depth of cut. If your iron (or plane) is "too wide", it's just adds a little mass.

Well you could in theory grind a 3" or smaller diameter camber on any blade, but it might as well be a small one. The tight camber is key, see my post above.

If you're converting a metal plane, I would recommend a #4 or bigger - you need room to get a decent grip of the thing, since scrub planes are for brute work.

I'd say 3 ideally. 3 is approx same size as the ECE scrubber but the blade is wider than necessary. It's not that brutish either - if you have it right it's quite easy compared to other planing ops. Handles on a 3 are same size as 4 and 5 so just as easy to grip.

incidentally what shape do you use on your jack plane iron? Also, excuse my ignorance, but what does AOTBE stand for?

I put an indeterminate bit of camber on all plane blades except the narrow ones (rebate, etc). Wide blades with straight edges are difficult to work. AOTBE = all other things being equal.

 

[Carl P]

Thanks once again, I'll start by setting up a jack traditionally and go on from there - when they arrive I'll have a lot of planes to choose from so I should be able to try all sizes from block to jack, thanks to all for the info, I like your definition of the camber you use Jacob, if you get a moment, any chance of photographing some of your irons? Thanks for the link bugbear, very helpful indeed,

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I keep looking at old planes sold on e-bay as "made in England no 2, no maker's name" - they come up periodically, all look like they are the same make, and nobody seems to want them. They look very like a metal scrub plane to me, although it is hard to get an idea of scale. Could be a starting point - anyone tried ?

 

[bugbear]

I keep looking at old planes sold on e-bay as "made in England no 2, no maker's name" - they come up periodically, all look like they are the same make, and nobody seems to want them. They look very like a metal scrub plane to me, although it is hard to get an idea of scale. Could be a starting point - anyone tried ?

That's a "Whitmore No 2", Alf (who was driven away from this forum by noisy idiots) converted one into a scrub. I think she semi-gave it to someone.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

That's a "Whitmore No 2", Alf converted one into a scrub. I think she semi-gave it to someone.

Yes, I have that plane that Alf converted to a scrub. It's the one in the foreground of this picture

It works really well.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[GazPal]

Whitmore is one maker of the "British Made" / "Made in England" #2 which I think was originally intended for scrubbing use and they work extremely well for that purpose - as I'd suggested earlier. :wink:

 

[GazPal]

I keep looking at old planes sold on e-bay as "made in England no 2, no maker's name" - they come up periodically, all look like they are the same make, and nobody seems to want them. They look very like a metal scrub plane to me, although it is hard to get an idea of scale. Could be a starting point - anyone tried ?

I have three of these #2's hanging around and - while they look similar - I don't think they're by the same maker, as they differ in terms of dimensions and casting quality. With their 1.5/8" - 1.3/4" wide irons they certainly work very well as scrub planes, as we'd been using them in our workshop for a number of years. They're very similar in size to #03 planes, but lack the frog detail and iron adjustments associated with Bailey style planes.