Sapwood/ heartwood

[dicktimber]

Do you cut it out and just use the heartwood when making furniture?

What are the rule if there are any?

 

[woodbloke]

Do you cut it out and just use the heartwood when making furniture?

What are the rule if there are any?

Yes and don't use sap - Rob

 

[Chris Knight]

There are no rules! It is getting ever harder to find sapwood-free boards and unless you are prepared to pay through the nose, it's best to learn how to incorporate the paler wood into your project..

You must of course also watch out for downsides other than colour:-

1. Often wormholed - although if KD timber is used, they should not be active.
2. Sometimes punky - chuck this, you can't use it.
3. Sometimes much weaker/softer than heartwood - might be unusable or again, usable in the right place.

A useful dye for matching colours in sapwood is Van Dyke crystals which can be applied in several coats to darken the wood considerably if wanted. It is also very colour fast. The colour imparted is best for walnut but is also of use with other species.

 

[Froggy]

Hi Waterhead,

What's 'PUNKY' mean please?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Hi Waterhead,

What's 'PUNKY' mean please?

It's a term mostly used by Americans to describe wood that's significantly degraded, soft and weak due to fungal attack. Slainte.

 

[dicktimber]

That's the problem. There seems to be more and more sapwood on boards these day, and when the average width is say 10" you loose a fair amount if you cut it out.
I am working with some elm.
I have just done a test on a planed and sanded off cut, and have to say the sapwood just does not look right after oil has been applied.

It then begs the question how many pieces does it take to make a table top !!!!!!! ( I jest, but the thought is there)

I have also found that the elm has, I don't know the name, areas where branches have been, giving pitting and a bur like surface on the heartwod.
Now these for a raised panel look quite decorative, but would the true aficianado furniture maker cut these out also, or are these acceptable?

 

[dannykaye]

sometimes sapwood is good, for example yew long bows rely on it...

There used to be a process called water seasoning where you hang the log in a stream for a couple of years then dry it out. It was thought to wash out the sap making the sapwood usable and cut down insect attack on the theory that it is the sap they are after.

 

[Ironballs]

Like has been said, there are no rules, it's down to personal preference - and as you'll have seen Rob's preference is for none

It depends on the wood and the project in my opinion, oak sap is soft and pale and usually full of worm, ash has very little sap, walnut can be soft and the pale contrast with the heartwood either ruins or makes your piece. Similar with cherry, the sap there can be beautiful with some stunning grain.

The burr like inclusions you have seen in elm are very common and again in my opinion are a very desirable feature - you only have to look at the prices for burr elm and pippy oak

 

[BradNaylor]

An local old boy cabinet maker I was chatting to told me that with maple and sycamore it is the sapwood that is used to get the nice creamy white appearence while the heartwood is the waste, being brown and ugly.

Is he right?

 

[yetloh]

I think that is rubbish.

So far as sycamore is concerned, in a properly dried board (and so much of it isn't) heart and sap are barely distinguishable although this can vary from tree to tree and in some the heart may be a little warmer in colour than the sap.

Maple tends tp be warmer in color than sycamore anyway and I haven't noticed the sap being much paler.

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

and as you'll have seen Rob's preference is for none

It's just me, as Damian and others have said...there are no rules. Sometimes the sap is as valuable as the heart 'specially if you're using yew, but in most cases I cut away all the sap and then look at what's left. If I were to make a piece and accidently include some sap, it would irritate beyond belief :evil:
Once all the sap has been cut away, you can then plan the cutting list according the grain pattern (if you want to be that piccy) about a piece...but again, it depends what you're doing - Rob

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Is he right?

Only in part. In the American grading system the rules for heartwood and sapwood varies from species to species. Sapwood in cherry is considered undesirable as it detracts from the brown heartwood most buyers seek, whereas in ash and maple it’s considered desirable as it’s white.

The heartwood of the American maples is also white, assuming there aren't faults to cause dicolouration. On a side note American sycamore (Platanus occidentalis) has tan or brown heartwood, unlike European sycamore (Acer pseudoplatanus).

The heartwood of American ashes can vary in colour from grey white to off white to pale browns and even some reds. European ash tends to be cream to tan coloured and sometimes there is dark brown called olive ash caused by fungal infection. Slainte.

 

[Mr Ed]

If I were to make a piece and accidently include some sap, it would irritate beyond belief :evil:

Ah well thats the point, the use of sapwood unintentionally may not be desirable, but used knowingly as a design element of the piece it can make a massive contribution. We work with a natural material that has variation and quirks, to try and reduce it back to a homogenous, even coloured material on every project is to miss an opportunity in my view.

Ed

 

[woodbloke]

If I were to make a piece and accidently include some sap, it would irritate beyond belief :evil:

Ah well thats the point, the use of sapwood unintentionally may not be desirable, but used knowingly as a design element of the piece it can make a massive contribution. We work with a natural material that has variation and quirks, to try and reduce it back to a homogenous, even coloured material on every project is to miss an opportunity in my view.

Ed

I knew that was coming Ed :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Mr Ed]

If I were to make a piece and accidently include some sap, it would irritate beyond belief :evil:

Ah well thats the point, the use of sapwood unintentionally may not be desirable, but used knowingly as a design element of the piece it can make a massive contribution. We work with a natural material that has variation and quirks, to try and reduce it back to a homogenous, even coloured material on every project is to miss an opportunity in my view.

Ed

I knew that was coming Ed :lol: :lol: - Rob

Well funnily enough when I saw the thread I knew you'd be in here first... :lol:

I almost didn't bother as even I'm bored of saying the same things every time this comes up :lol:

Ed

 

[motownmartin]

In some cases you can hardly tell there is sapwood, that is until you apply a finish, as was the case with this Walnut clock.

It's not how I wanted it to turn out but some peeps quite like it.

Sorry about the size of the photo.

[/img]

The use of sapwood in this Yew tissue box makes it look rather attractive, as it does in a lot of small ornamental pieces and other small furniture in my opinion, but thats what its all about, opinions.