Restoring Victorian window casement

[RichD1]

The bottom rail of one of our casements has been nibbled by the dreaded rot.

I've cleared out all the really bad damaged wood and got back to something reasonable and then stabilised it with some Ronseal wood hardener.

It's only the outside surface which has gone so I'm going to try and laminate some old seasoned wood on the face.

I've made up a sled for the router table to carry the casement so as to mill away the affected areas and am now down 10mm. Before starting I glued a dowel through the existing mortise joints and screwed a piece of plywood to the back to keep it in shape.

I was hoping to go down 15mm which might enable me to produce a joint in the piece I'm going to laminate on top but this would expose the original tenon.

Any thoughts guys?

What adhesive would you use to bonded the new piece with?

Richard

 

[RichD1]

This the corner which is the weakest, so don't think I can go down any further.

Would an 0 size biscuit be OK in a 10mm butt joint for the new wood?

I will need to fill any gaps under where the new wood will be, any recommendations on a good filler or is there a good gap filling adhesive? I've read that applying polyurethane to wetted surfaces causes it to foam and fill gaps.

Richard

 

[RobinBHM]

I wouldnt worry about going through the tenon, just go down as far as you want.

The bits you are fitting would benefit fron being jointed together, like a halving joint, so you have a nice big glue area. If you make one side machined out deeper than the other that would help you form an offset halving leaving more strength in the new bits

Id go for PU glue, a couple of stainless screws and some clamps.

 

[RichD1]

Not sure what you mean by an offset halving joint.

I can't go any deeper than 15mm as this the depth of the glazing rebate. Would a halving joint be stronger than a mortice and tenon in 15mm?

Richard

 

[deema]

For gap filling I would use west epoxy resin with their filler to make it thicker. Look up west systems for details. Polyurethane glue although it will foam, the foam is not a filler and has no strength. The glue needs face to face contact for strength.

If the casement were to be painted, I would cut out completely the rotten parts and scarf in new wood. For a tenon I would make a loose tenon joint you could alternatively use large dowels, or a domino to achieve the same effect.

If you don't want to scarf and would prefer to build up the joint, I'd again cut away the rot, west epoxy the new wood in, it will bond better with the softened wood and act as a filler. I would add screws for strength (you can wooden plug over them to hide) or alternatively once the west has gone off, drill and dowel for strength

 

[RichD1]

I think making a whole new bottom section is a bit beyond my woodworking skills at this present time, but thanks for the advice.

Think I will mill away more material to get a reasonable thickness for the new wood and then try and product a joint (dowels or a full m & t) between the vertical sections and the bottom horizontal rail then PU glue onto existing frame with dowels fitted through to provide extra strength. (Love to be able to afford a domino cutter!!!)

Richard

 

[Mike Jordan]

I can't see the whole of the subject piece of joinery but seems to me that making a replacement item would be cheap and easy. It's fair to say that the skills required to complete an effective repair often exceed those needed to make a new item. Using wonder products like wood hardener and epoxy filler just stave of the inevitable day when a replacement will be needed. Most of the gadgets sold to make life easier for amateur woodworkers are a confidence trick! To suggest that a domino machine would solve the problem is nonsense when you compare the price of such a device to that of say a floor standing mortiser. Likewise a competent woodworker can produce pocket hole screws with a gouge and drill rather than a pricey jig (no it's still not a very good method for most uses) put aside daft ideas like biscuits, loose tenons and jigs of various kinds, the price of any one will see you equipped with decent hand tools which are much more useful. You already have a router with which you can cut mortise and tenon joints with a home made jig and mould and rebate to a good standard with ease. It's much better to make a proper job once.
Regards
Mike.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I can't see the whole of the subject piece of joinery but seems to me that making a replacement item would be cheap and easy. It's fair to say that the skills required to complete an effective repair often exceed those needed to make a new item. It's much better to make a proper job once.
Regards
Mike.

Every time. I repaired a large box frame in my old house, and I ended up rebuilding the bottom third. I don't regret it for what it taught me, but I could have made a new window in half the time.

 

[RichD1]

Hi Mike, I take your point, unfortunately time isn't with me in this instance. I'm completely refurbing the bathroom so it has to be an easy fix as a loo is more important!!! There are big 5 pane bay windows which are probably in the same sort of condition so will give that some serious thought and try some practice pieces when I get round to them.

Richard

 

[RobinBHM]

I think making a whole new bottom section is a bit beyond my woodworking skills at this present time, but thanks for the advice.

Think I will mill away more material to get a reasonable thickness for the new wood and then try and product a joint (dowels or a full m & t) between the vertical sections and the bottom horizontal rail then PU glue onto existing frame with dowels fitted through to provide extra strength. (Love to be able to afford a domino cutter!!!)

Richard

I think that should work well. If you can cut a mortice and tenon joint, that would be quite strong, although a bit of a compromise in 15mm or so material.

It is true that pu glue has no strength where it fills gaps as it just foaming up. But you are routing a nice flat surface so you will have a large surface area for gluing.

You will need to fill the rotten sections that remain, use the proper 2k repair systems not normal 2 pack filler that will fall out in the not too distant future.

Although the joint will never be that strong, once the sash is reglazed it will be strong enough. You could use a modern version of putty that dries much more quickly.

I think you realise, these sort of repairs arent a long term solution, but will last a few years if done well.

https://www.reddiseals.com/product/timbaglaze-putty/

http://www.sealantsonline.co.uk/Product ... em/WIN7506

 

[AndyT]

I'm not saying it's the best answer, but when I've done a similar job, I used Gripfil, the solvent-based type.
I was chiselling out the old wood rather than routing it and there were some dips in the surface where I needed the adhesive to fill gaps.

It seemed to work well. Excess Gripfil could be trimmed away with a chisel and it all took primer and paint ok.

It's caused me no problems since, though I have moved house. :wink: