Respirators - Airshield or Powercap ?

[Grahamshed]

I am pussled.

Toolpost sell both the Trend Airshield and the JSP Power cap.
Presumably both do the same job in basically the same way and both use the same grade of filters.

So why would the JSP Power cap be VAT free and the Airshield not ?

 

[chipmunk]

I suspect it's that JSP are a company who specialize in COSHH equipment and so are savvy enough to sell their stuff VAT free - perhaps because they can and know it'll give them a competitive advantage.

TREND are probably not so aware that they can or perhaps not even interested in competitively pricing their equipment? From what I've seen their other products do not seem to be priced especially competitively to me.

Jon

 

[Grahamshed]

Maybe, but the Trend is still cheaper then the power cap even with the VAT

 

[Rhossydd]

So why would the JSP Power cap be VAT free ?

I don't think it can be. That sort of product can't be sold without adding VAT.

I'd hazard a guess that you're looking at a supplier that's quoting prices excluding VAT, but will apply VAT at point of sale.

 

[Grahamshed]

Toolpost do only show prices ex vat but have gone to the trouble of putting a note against the JSP to say that no VAT will be added, not so with the Trend.

I can always ask them, they are only down the road, but may not buy from them.

 

[Rhossydd]

Toolpost do only show prices ex vat but have gone to the trouble of putting a note against the JSP to say that no VAT will be added, not so with the Trend.

It looks like they're deeming them to be industrial helmets and maybe the Trend doesn't meet the relevant British Standard.

Whether Toolpost should actually be selling these VAT free to anyone is debatable. They could end up having an 'interesting' discussion with the VAT authorities if they ever chose to investigate it. However they're the ones who will get clobbered by a fine, so customers needn't worry too much.

 

[Mark Hancock]

Safety kit is usually zero rated.
I suspect it's because of the different impact ratings of the two. The JSP is medium impact suitable for woodturning whereas the Trend is low impact not suitable for woodturning but good for dust protection.

 

[chipmunk]

I think Mark may be right - it seems down to the helmet aspect rather than the dust filtering.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...HMCE_CL_000107&propertyType=document#P34_1936

Jon

 

[Grahamshed]

Safety kit is usually zero rated.
I suspect it's because of the different impact ratings of the two. The JSP is medium impact suitable for woodturning whereas the Trend is low impact not suitable for woodturning but good for dust protection.

I think you are probably right so I will accept that despite ( or because of ? ) your sig line

 

[Sheptonphil]

Hi Graham, you have pm.

 

[Grahamshed]

Thanks phil, answered.

 

[CHJ]

I am pussled.

Toolpost sell both the Trend Airshield and the JSP Power cap.
Presumably both do the same job in basically the same way and both use the same grade of filters.

So why would the JSP Power cap be VAT free and the Airshield not ?

I'm confused by the above statement, I looked at the TT site and they are both quoted as +Vat as far as I can see :-
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Health_ ... ators.html

And as far as I can determine they are both rated as meeting EN.166 impact rating but the Trend has a better spec dust rating of BS EN 12941 THP2 as opposed to the PP EN12491:1988 TH1P

I suspect that's down to reverse leakage rating as opposed to actual filter rating, I believe that was the case with the older units anyway.

 

[Rhossydd]

I'm confused by the above statement, I looked at the TT site and they are both quoted as +Vat as far as I can see :-
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Health_ ... ators.html

Look more closely:
IN the ordering section it states "NB: VAT is NOT chargeable on this item "

 

[Mark Hancock]

I am pussled.

Toolpost sell both the Trend Airshield and the JSP Power cap.
Presumably both do the same job in basically the same way and both use the same grade of filters.

So why would the JSP Power cap be VAT free and the Airshield not ?

I'm confused by the above statement, I looked at the TT site and they are both quoted as +Vat as far as I can see :-
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Health_ ... ators.html

And as far as I can determine they are both rated as meeting EN.166 impact rating but the Trend has a better spec dust rating of BS EN 12941 THP2 as opposed to the PP EN12491:1988 TH1P

I suspect that's down to reverse leakage rating as opposed to actual filter rating, I believe that was the case with the older units anyway.

Hi Chas

The standard EN166 covers Eye and Face Protection but there are sub divisions within that. If you check out the link below it'll explain them. The recommended standard for face protection for woodturning is EN166.1.3.B.9 meaning continuous wear with protection for medium impact and molten metal (dry grinder sparks). Polycarbonate visors are rated for medium impact whereas acetate ones are low impact.

http://www.greenham.com/selectionguides/eyewear.pdf

Regarding the VAT on the Toolpost web site if you click through on the prices VAT is added to the Trend but not the JSP. Why? I'm not sure as they both fall within the standard EN166.

 

[Rhossydd]

Regarding the VAT on the Toolpost web site if you click through on the prices VAT is added to the Trend but not the JSP. Why? I'm not sure as they both fall within the standard EN166.

You're just looking at face protection. I think the critical aspect with respect to it's VAT rating is head protection. You'll see the Trend doesn't claim any specific protection level.

If you then go and look at the HMRC VAT site you'll see that it's just boots and helmets that can be zero rated for industrial use.

 

[CHJ]

Yes thanks Mark I'm aware of the specs, I went into this subject pretty thoroughly when I did a review of the Trend Pro and The JSP IP version when the Trend Pro first came out.

For full details of things such as these masks I think it prudent to look at the actual specification on the manufactures site or those supplied with the devices rather than the marketing/promotional excerpts in magazines or retailers sites.

I have not seen the full specs of either of the current models in the link I referred to, but I would certainly wish to do so before making a definitive comment about absolute compliance.

I know at the time of my review there were variations in marketing blurb with confusing comments about Filter ratings that made no mention of the full mask rating regarding reverse flow that limited the effectiveness.

I would be very surprised if the current TrendPro had reduced its impact rating. Although I could not get on with the version I had for review it certainly met the same rating as the JSP IP for impact.

 

[Mark Hancock]

Regarding the VAT on the Toolpost web site if you click through on the prices VAT is added to the Trend but not the JSP. Why? I'm not sure as they both fall within the standard EN166.

You're just looking at face protection. I think the critical aspect with respect to it's VAT rating is head protection. You'll see the Trend doesn't claim any specific protection level.

If you then go and look at the HMRC VAT site you'll see that it's just boots and helmets that can be zero rated for industrial use.

Maybe that is the issue; the lens/visor is to the EN166 standard but the head gear is not and so the lower level of protection is taken which doesn't fit the HMRC zero VAT rating requirements.

 

[Mark Hancock]

Yes thanks Mark I'm aware of the specs, I went into this subject pretty thoroughly when I did a review of the Trend Pro and The JSP IP version when the Trend Pro first came out.

For full details of things such as these masks I think it prudent to look at the actual specification on the manufactures site or those supplied with the devices rather than the marketing/promotional excerpts in magazines or retailers sites.

I have not seen the full specs of either of the current models in the link I referred to, but I would certainly wish to do so before making a definitive comment about absolute compliance.

I know at the time of my review there were variations in marketing blurb with confusing comments about Filter ratings that made no mention of the full mask rating regarding reverse flow that limited the effectiveness.

I would be very surprised if the current TrendPro had reduced its impact rating. Although I could not get on with the version I had for review it certainly met the same rating as the JSP IP for impact.

Yes couldn't agree more about getting the spec from the manufacturer. Many retailers just pick selective bits in their marketing which can be very confusing. I've just been researching a face visor I recently bought and found their are actually two versions with one being nearly twice the price of the other because of a variation in the spec although they look identical.

 

[Grahamshed]

beginning to wish I hadn't asked

So the Trend seems to come out pretty well even if it doesn't meet the same standard. Can I ask Chas why you didn't get on with it ?

 

[CHJ]

...... Many retailers just pick selective bits in their marketing which can be very confusing.

Precisely, wholesale incentives for recommending/promoting one version above another have a big influence.

...... I've just been researching a face visor I recently bought and found their are actually two versions with one being nearly twice the price of the other because of a variation in the spec although they look identical.

A very easy trap for the casual byer to fall for, the impact rating of the Visors/Hoods affects the pricing so drastically, I presume because the higher rated items have to be certified for HSE and are normally marketed to Trade where the higher costs/enhanced pricing are accepted in the manipulation of the accountants.

As a matter of interest Mark, I presume your latest purchase was for the replacement of the 3M unit, do you mind revealing which one you ended up with?

My 3M is still going strong but I'm aware that I'll more than likely have a £200-300 purchase decision at some time if I live long enough to use up the wood stocks.