removing a back bevel

[Jacob]

I think a figure eight pattern should result in scratches of multiple directions.

Nah, sod that! You want a figure of 64 for ultimate sharpness :wink:

Are you sure? I thought it was 42.

 

[MIGNAL]

Yes it's 42. 42 is the number of sharpening stones that I own. It's also the number of Planes that I have acquired. 42 is also the number of seconds it takes me to get ultimate sharpness, when all the atoms in the steel are in harmonious alignment thus giving me 42 seconds longer edge durability.
42. It's a great number.

 

[MMUK]

64 is the number of hours before I can be bothered to re-sharpen my #5 iron :lol:

 

[Jacob]

Yes it's 42. 42 is the number of sharpening stones that I own. It's also the number of Planes that I have acquired. 42 is also the number of seconds it takes me to get ultimate sharpness, when all the atoms in the steel are in harmonious alignment thus giving me 42 seconds longer edge durability.
42. It's a great number.

Hmm, could be the answer to everything then?

 

[Trafalgar]

Yes it's 42. 42 is the number of sharpening stones that I own. It's also the number of Planes that I have acquired. 42 is also the number of seconds it takes me to get ultimate sharpness, when all the atoms in the steel are in harmonious alignment thus giving me 42 seconds longer edge durability.
42. It's a great number.

Words escape me...

 

[bugbear]

So maybe this is another variable worth experimenting on. I expect that rubbing at right angles to the edge is commonest. Wide stones (wider than a plane iron) make it look normal, as do big sheets of paper and jigs with long rollers.

Here's a side to side jig - the "Sharp Skate"

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... Skate.html

But I do recall a video someone found of a Japanese sharpening jig where the blade was hitched to a post and swung from side to side in a large arc, so the rubbing was nearly parallel to the edge, and it seemed to work well.

Ooh, I dimly remember that. A nice user made bodge up, worked ok, but required a large amount of space to operate.

Can't (quickly) find the link.

BugBear

 

[MMUK]

Only 14 pages? Come on Jacob, you're slipping in yoru old age :lol:

 

[Peter Sefton]

14 pages and I haven't made a comment yet, if it gets to 18 I might start! but I am trying to not get sucked in.
Peter

 

[Jacob]

We got the answer! It's 42. See above. No need for any more threads like this so we can stop at 42 pages. Just a few more to go.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Krenov used to sharpen with a side to side action. I don't think he claimed to be unique in doing so. Perhaps he learned it when he trained in Sweden in Carl Malmsten's workshop. The College of the Redwoods certainly continue to show sharpening like this, though not exclusively. Funnily enough another method they favour is using short forward and backward strokes on the stone, which I favour when freehand sharpening.

Mike

 

[charvercarver]

I use a sort of side sharpening technique I got from a Krenov book. You rest the handle in your cupped right hand and press down behind the bevel with your left hand. The chisel (or whatever) pivots in your right hand while you make arcs across the stone with your left.

 

[bugbear]

Hello,

Krenov used to sharpen with a side to side action. I don't think he claimed to be unique in doing so. Perhaps he learned it when he trained in Sweden in Carl Malmsten's workshop. The College of the Redwoods certainly continue to show sharpening like this, though not exclusively. Funnily enough another method they favour is using short forward and backward strokes on the stone, which I favour when freehand sharpening.

Mike

Didn't the swiss planemaker in the video someone put up recently do side to side sharpneing?

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Didn't the swiss planemaker in the video someone put up recently do side to side sharpneing?

BugBear

I was that someone, here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post862823.html#p862823 and he did have the oilstone 'sideways.' He moved the stone in something like a flat oval pattern, so yes, the action was more side to side than back and forth. Blink and you'll miss it!

 

[bugbear]

I just fell across this, which shows SEM photos of various sharpening techniques.

It's by Professor John Verhoeven.

www.bushcraftuk.com/downloads/pdf/knifeshexps.pdf

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Serendipity; whilst searching for information on Carpentaire's coticule I found this series of photomicrographs
of an edge being sharpened.

http://jendeindustries.wordpress.com/20 ... ogression/

BugBear

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

There is nothing truer than The phrase used on the last link; 'choose two out of the three-- fast, good, cheap'. It is certainly the case for woodwork sharpening systems, and I guess almost everything in life.

Fast, cheap sharpening will not be good; fast, good sharpening will not be cheap and good cheap sharpening will not be fast! Take your choice. :roll:

The book on metallurgical abrasion and polishing came in the post yesterday. Only had a glance, but there seems to be some good stuff, when I digest it. The few bits I've skimmed tell me that there is always some sub surface damage during abrasion, the actual grain structure of the metal is destructively altered. I came across a phrase saying that method adopted of mechanical grinding and then subsequent manual abrading, should cause the least damage possible and this damage should be removed with subsequent stages, also minimising the new damage of each new stage. A long winded way of saying ' polish to a fine enough grit and don't make too big a leap between grits', I guess. When I get some time, I'll delve a bit more deeply.

Incidentally, the book is called, Metallographic Polishing by Mechanical Methods, by Dr. L E Samuels.

Mike.

 

[Trafalgar]

I suspect that there are more than a few characters in this thread that know more about sharpening and the associated metallurgy than the late great Alan Peters. Lesson in here somewhere?

Here's what happens when I rub a cutter's edge on a fine stone until I can feel a burr and then I strop the burr and the rag until I can no longer detect it by touch. 90 seconds worth of work, 120 seconds if the weather is nice and I look out the window a couple of times:

Bacon strip shaving up straight out of the mouth plucked out and laid on the board, cut clean and virtually tear-out free off highly figured rock maple (and I do mean "rock") with Record 4.5/Cliffy breaker with Hock iron. I didn't even bother to touch up the cutter (had been using the plane for twenty minutes or so). No back bevels, no Ruler Tricks, magnifying glass, or microscope, no multiple bevels on the front, no $400 thoroughbred Japanese honing stones, no fuss, no muss. No. 1 Washita to produce a burr in a few strokes (no reason to belabor moving through the bluntness). Black Arky to straighten it all up ('til the blade catches a thumbnail at a very low angle). Hard strop for a few strokes front and back. I can assure anyone reading this thread that the edges produced thusly (on plane irons, chisels, etc.) are serviceable at any time, any place, pro or amateur. This procedure leaves edges with little, if anything, to be desired.

 

[wizard]

if you need to ask how to sharpen a blade give up and take up knitting :lol:

 

[bugbear]

I suspect that there are more than a few characters in this thread that know more about sharpening and the attendant metallurgy than the late great Alan Peters. Lesson in here somewhere?

Well, I don't need to sharpen at all, since woodworking is my hobby and pastime, not my job. I could stop anytime...

I enjoy knowing the why of a thing something at least as much as knowing the how, and I enjoy knowing and comparing the why of multiple things most of all.

Other people's priorities may have a narrower focus than mine, to which they are (of course) welcome.

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

I suspect that there are more than a few characters in this thread that know more about sharpening and the attendant metallurgy than the late great Alan Peters. Lesson in here somewhere?

Well, I don't need to sharpen at all, since woodworking is my hobby and pastime, not my job. I could stop anytime...

I enjoy knowing the why of a thing something at least as much as knowing the how, and I enjoy knowing and comparing the why of multiple things most of all.

Other people's priorities may have a narrower focus than mine, to which they are (of course) welcome.

BugBear

Is the "narrower focus" sharpening up and moving on?