removing a back bevel

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DannyEssex

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I picked up some nice footprint chisles from the bootsale this morning, not too bad condition, in need of a bit of a clean but there's one hell of a back bevel on all three.

It looks as if the previous owner started grinding a new primary bevel on the backs.

How would you go about getting them flat again with hands only? Should I concentrate on the back of the chisle or the bevel? Silly question but thought I would ask what you guys would do?

TIA
Dan
 
I'd grind them square on 90º until the bevel is gone and then sharpen in the usual way.
More sensible to call your "back" the face. I don't know why people call it the back, or what name they'd choose for the top/bevel side, which I've always known as the back. You even get the face called "the back face" which presumably makes (my) back "the front face". Easier to remember (and more logical); flat = face, back = bevel.
There's a bit of a vogue for flattening faces but it's not essential (within reason). Most old chisels and plane blades end up a bit less than flat but you'd never know in use.
 
The bevel.
Easiest way would be if you can find someone nearby with a grinder. Failing that, best bet would be a 40 grit belt cut open and stretched along your bench. Long runs make it go quickly. Don't use too much pressure, steady stroke along the full length and vac or brush off the belt regularly.
Bear in mind it doesn't take too many belts to make up the cost of a cheap grinder
 
Jacob said:
I'd grind them square on 90º until the bevel is gone and then sharpen in the usual way.
quote]

Danny if you have a powered grinder to hand this is the best method. You can then use the grinder to add the 25deg primary bevel.
 
David Charlesworth did a blog post a while back suggesting an alternative method for removing a back bevel. He scored the top and bottom of the blade, snapped the end off and then reground what was left.

If you're careful (and lucky) you can get the break at an angle so there is less grinding required to restore the bevel.

Bearing in mind how easily your total of time + money invested could run to the cost of a new or better cared for set, this might be an expedient approach.
 
Pictures would help, but it's just possible they were used by a carver and deliberately bevelled both sides. If the back bevel is going to take too much work to remove you could keep them for carving and find some others for ordinary work.
 
AndyT":3ggfuh6b said:
Pictures would help, but it's just possible they were used by a carver and deliberately bevelled both sides. If the back bevel is going to take too much work to remove you could keep them for carving and find some others for ordinary work.

Agreed; other wise just grind the end away (as advised).

Do NOT attempt to flatten the back to tremove the back bevel. Waste of time and effort.

BugBear
 
I will post up some pictures tomorrow, I don't need these chisels as I have other better quality chisels, I just liked them and thought it would be nice to have 'spare' users :D

Thanks for the advice though
 
Was a bit hard to get a good picture
 

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Ouch! Looks like they were in the hands of someone without a clue.

Personally, I'd cut them down and make a set of butt chisels out of them.
 
NickWelford":2a5q5tpy said:
Since when do carvers have a bevel on the flat side?

This is from "Practical Woodcarving and Gilding" by William Wheeler and Charles Hayward:

639C5BCD-CA40-4929-A7B4-1BD0F9A52AF5_zpsat7nmdqa.jpg

76D4F66B-92E8-49A4-A096-13EDAA3FB3D2_zpsd54vz31m.jpg
 
NickWelford":7uffo35j said:
Since when do carvers have a bevel on the flat side?

Well … it's quite traditional to not have a flat side for a carving chisel. For a skew chisel, there is an obvious benefit in that there is no longer a 'right' or 'left' handed skew, instead you can just flip it over.

For the square edge chisel, it's a bit more subtle. The first thing to note is that there is not really any need for a 'flat' side to a chisel when carving. Flat planes (typically the 'ground', but also other surfaces inside the carving) are done with a wide and shallow gouge - see the 'Chris Pye' range from Ashley Iles for this idea taken to 11. Generally speaking, there's rarely a need for part of carving to be flat to within millimetres - and if there is, then it's for technical purposes (e.g. joining sections via mortise and tenon), and thus would be done with the tools for that (mortise chisel etc), rather than the carving chisels.

So, having obviated the need for a flat back, lets look at the advantages of the 'back bevel' - there must be some, else why have twice as many surfaces to sharpen each time!

The biggest difference from the typical bevel edge chisel is the sharpening angle. I generally aim for 10 -12 degrees each side, for a net 20 - 25 degrees cutting angle. This angle each side means that on a flat surface, when I hold the chisel by the blade in my off hand, it sits with the bevel pretty much parallel to the surface. This means that shifting the tip between cutting and not cutting is as fine a movement as a gentle twist - with the thumb and pinky finger both touching the surface in both positions. This hand position facilitates all types of cuts, from a two handed grip (primary hand on the wooden handle), for pushing, or slicing cuts, or a more active cut with one of the mallets.

At least for me, with the meagre experience I have, this hand positioning is the big advantage of the double bevel, as it facilitate very fine cuts. Sometimes, this leads to the back bevel being smaller (or larger) than the primary, depending on the size of ones hands and the length of the blade.

There are other ways of using a chisel, or course, where one's off hand is not resting on the surface of the work - but it is in this case that I see the major differences.

One other claimed advantage is that it puts the cutting edge in the middle of the steel, so that when one is taking large cuts with a heavy mallet, the cutting edge is less likely to roll, as it's supported on both sides. Separately, a single-beveled chisel can 'drift' a bit - which is often used to the advantage - but a back beveled chisel is claimed to be much less likely to drift. I say 'claimed' on both of those - they seem very sensible claims, but I've not done that much straight work (lettering is the classic use of it, I'm more into functional and sculptural forms) to be able to attest to it directly.

To not digress too far from the topic, these chisels do not strike me as the careful bevel selection of deliberate choice - I'd have no qualms at taking them to a grinder.
 
sdjp":3n6kle98 said:
.. … it's quite traditional to not have a flat side for a carving chisel. ........
And the obsession with dead flat mirror finished faces is entirely a modern invention, apart from the very few circumstances which might demand it.
 
Those chisels are classic.

A little work on the backs will show how much needs grinding off the tip, square, before re defining the bevel.

David Charlesworth
 
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