question - why the lack of engineering vices in woodworking?

[SlowSteve]

Hello all.

This may sound daft, but it's a genuine question.

On my bench I have a standard face vice ( no 52.5) and also a big long reach engineers vice ( number 23). which I have fitted with leather wrapped wooden jaws - which is a 2 minute job to change.

Maybe because I have previously focused on metalwork and it's just habit, but the big engineers vice gets a LOT more work than my face vice in my workshop - perhaps 5 times as much. I think I could "make do" without the face vice - although in it's place it is really useful - but I can't imagine not having the engineers vice.


However, they don't seem very common in "proper" woodworkers shops - i.e. "people better than me" - which is pretty much everyone in the world.

I was wondering why they seem to get so much less use - Am i majorly under-estimating the value of a face vice, or is it more about habit and tradition?

Thanks

Steve

 

[ED65]

Tradition will be part of it I'm sure, at least initially. And I think that'll be the main factor for those who don't go online and view forums, where you see a greater cross-section of other people's setups than you'd see in the woodworking mags.

Once you do get the notion that a vice like this might be useful, however that might be, space and/or cost could still rule one out. I'd like a larger vice like a 23 but I couldn't swing the cost and I wouldn't have anywhere to put it currently

 

[Dee J]

A lot depends on what you're working on. For small items either type of vice is useful, and the extra height of the engineers vice can be useful for precise or delicate work. But for longer or wider items its not very useful... not much drop-through space on vertical parts and no support on the long ends of horizontal parts. Plus of course, it sticks up above bench height precluding the positioning of sheet materials and its iron construction is a bit of a liability for edge tools.

So yes the engineers vice is very useful - but best on a separate bench.

 

[DTR]

It depends on what you're making and how you're making it.

Face vices are perfect for holding panels vertically so you can work on the edge or the end, say edge shooting or dovetailing. Even large engineers vices don't have a great capacity compared to the average woodworkers vice. I have an engineer's vice on the metalwork side of the shop, but I've rarely had the need to use it for woodworking.

On the other hand, engineer's vices are perfect for working on small items. Many carvers use an engineer's vice.

edit: ED65 and Dee J beat me to it

 

[D_W]

I have a large US made engineer's vise on a machinist bench near my woodworking bench, and I use it fairly regularly for small stuff - it's very nice to have (not to mention, when you want to do something with metal, it's invaluable).

I'd imagine that, as said above, there are a lot of people using them in their shops regularly. Everything my father ever put in a vise was put in a machinist vise like that, and while he never exactly made 18th century reproduction furniture, I'm sure he made at least two dozen of the furniture and shelving items that are in his house.

 

[bugbear]

Engineer's vices are great for anything other than boards and rails ;-)

BugBear

 

[Mr_P]

I'm tall and suffering from middle age so I've just just ordered a second hand carvers vice, same idea and look as the engineers vice but two big plusses, not fixed down and far larger capacity. I do have an engineering vice but can't see how it would be that usefull for woodowork and yes I normally do small stuff.

If I was wealthier I would have ordered one from Douglas
topic90796.html

 

[AJB Temple]

I have a couple of engineers vices: one a big quick release English Record with 6" jaws, and a smaller one on a rotary base made in China. Both are very useful and I too have them on a different bench to my wood bench. I also have a blacksmiths leg vice that I keep meaning to install that can be mounted at the same height as wood vices. It is always handy to have different tools for different jobs!

 

[rxh]

Or how about one like this?

 

[graduate_owner]

I have my engineers vice bolted to a rock solid stand, made from a section of RSJ so it doesn't get in the way of the workbench.
On the workbench I have two carpenter's vices fixed to the face. They are a big help when edge planing long timbers.

K

 

[custard]

I like my bench high, so an engineering vice would just be too high. Plus I'll regularly want to lay out a flat panel, a vacuum bag, a small veneer press, or a plan or rod on the bench top and an engineering vice would just be in the way. Then there's the issue that often the vice is just one point of work holding, with a deadman, F Cramp, or some other device also employed on a long workpiece; an engineering vice doesn't work well in this capacity. An engineering vice isn't much use for holding a bench hook, shooting board, or any of thew myriad little jigs and fixtures that are a central part of woodworking. And finally, when copy routing I may need unobstructed access to three sides of the bench for fastening down a template, an engineering vice wouldn't allow this.

 

[Corneel]

For me, an engineers vice is not very suitable to work on the edges and especially the faces of boards. And the larger they get, the less usefull an engineers vice would be. A woodworkers bench is a complete solution for these kinds of tasks. Boards can lie flat on the top, clamped with dogs and an endvise. Boards can be clamped to the front of the bench. All that without anything sticking out or getting in the way of the planes, bench planes, rebate planes, moulding planes etc.

A board like this in an engineers vice would be quite a feat!

But I do have engineer vices. Multiples. They are on different benches. That also helps to keep wood and metal work separated. When you don't have the space for more then one bench, an idea is to bolt the engineers vise to a big chunk of wood and clamp that in the front vice of your woodworkers bench. Cleaning up all the metal swarf before you start doing woodwork again.

 

[worn thumbs]

If it works,why not?I also have both but almost always use the Record 52 1/2.On the other hand,if one of these or their clones found its way to me,that might change http://mprime.com/Emmert/index.htm .

Just as it would if one of these allowed me to change the engineers vice.

 

[xraymtb]

I have one but bolted to a separate bench, don't find it all that useful for anything woody though.

 

[D_W]

I recall these coming up a fair amount (chinese), and can't understand anything said in them, but was impressed with the rhythm the guy in the video keeps when working.

He does his vise wood holding in a small and large machinist vise, as well as by sitting on things and pushing them against stops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogOxj8zmUAM

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I keep a metal vise under a small, second bench. When needed, it is held by a woodworking bench clamp ..... a vise-in-a-vise.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MIGNAL]

I've used a Parrot vice for around 8 years. I have it permanently mounted on a second bench, although I've never used it in it's horizontal mounting. It's probably some 6 inches higher than my woodworking vice.