Quality of Power tool Manufacturers....

[Scrit]

.....any chance we could get a list going of tools that are manufactured by someone "else".

E.g. the Mafell LO50e is made by Festool...... Anyone know any others similarly done?

Oh yes, quite a few (inevitably), so here's your starter for ten (with apologies for any errors):

1. The Festool, OF2000 is actually made by Mafell as the LO65e
2. The Casals 2000 router is/was sold in various guises as the AEG 2000, Freud FT2000, etc
3. The deWalt DW625 is sold as the CMT1850 and in modified guise as the Trend T10 and T11
4. The Felisatti R346 is/was sold as the Trend T9 and the Metabo OFE1812 and was briefly offered by Woodfit Trading in the UK. It has also been sold by Holz-Her in the past and is still available in the USA as the Fein router (although not in the EU)
5. The Wickes "trade" range (generally light grey) are actually made by Kress in Germany
6. Kress also make some of the heavier SDS hammer drills sold buy Porter-Cable
7. Kress sell a biscuit jointer, the 800FDF, which shares the same front end plate/fence mechanism as the Mafell LNF19/LNF20 and the AEG/Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee biscuit jointer. These may have different motors, but the front end is a Mafell design, I've been told (by a factory rep)
8. Milwaukee's range incorporates many tools previously made as AEG (blue) or Atlas-Copco (black). Since A-C divested itself of the power tool division there has been wholesale dumping of old stock of the two defunct ranges, some of which can be found at bargain prices.
9. A number of older AEG tools are/were manufactured under licence by Sparky such as the silver gearbox stuff here
10. The Virutex range incorporates a number of tools made by Casals and Makita, but similarly has a number of tools formerly made for Elu (the Elu MFF40 power planer was a Virutex design). They also still sell the older (original) Festool jig saw, although I have no idea who makes it
nd for a bonus:

11. The current Festool range incorporates a belt sander and a laminate trimmer originally made by Holz-Her (now defunct)

Scrit Scritnesson

 

[engineer one]

seem to think that in fact holz her were bought out by the owners of
festo, believe i was told that by someone who claimed to know about these things. :roll:

paul :wink:

 

[Adam]

Thats a very useful list. Thanks.

Adam

 

[Jake]

I think it is worth noting that just because two tools are manufactured by the same company and they share the same basic design to some degree, doesn't make them identical. Much like purchasing a clone machine doesn't mean you are getting an exact replica in all respects of the real thing.

It is probably unfair to compare the LO50 to the OF1010 for instance, as it looks more like the old model Festool (which Adam put up a picture of).

Unfair or not, comparing the published specs (for what they are worth) of the two machines shows that they probably have different motors inside -one is 900W, one is 1010W. As watts are easily subject to specsmanship the more telling example is probably the max speed which is 22k rpm for the Mafell, and 24k rpm for the Festool - that suggests different electronics, and possibly bearings. One has 55mm plunge, one has 50mm. If you look at the base, the castings are completely different - for a start the Festool has the dust collection port cast into the base, but the Mafell doesn't. The plunge adjusters are different. I haven't seen the fences but I'm be willing to place a (small) bet that they are different. The Festool comes with guide rail adapter and systainer, the Mafell doesn't, etc.

I'm not advocating one over the other, just saying that it isn't quite as simple as saying that the Mafell is the Festool with a cheaper price tag, plus red plastic and minus green plastic.

I think both brands are great, btw. My Mafell LNF20 is an superb tool, and I have no doubt that the LO50E is as well. The extra £80 or so for the Festool is a big leap on an already high price for a dinky little router, and I doubt that the differences above would convince me to stump up the extra for the green variant.

 

[CYC]

I think it would be nice to track all this information in a table:
The tool > Really manufactured by > Reliability/longevity > Performance (is it powerful enough for the job and does it do the job well).

Difficult to track but with someone as knowledgeable as Scrit on our side we would get somewhere.
You could get into sophisticated scripts to input the table from polls but I don't know how we could implement this.

It certainly would benefit many of us to know what is what before purchasing. This forum as always been key for me in any purchase. I, like many I know on this forum, learned their lesson in buying cheap! Better to spend the money once on the right tool, even if far more expensive. I have been simply subjugated by the very expensive Festool I got: OF 1400 and ROS.

 

[Scrit]

I think it is worth noting that just because two tools are manufactured by the same company and they share the same basic design to some degree, doesn't make them identical. Much like purchasing a clone machine doesn't mean you are getting an exact replica in all respects of the real thing.

I agree, the Mafell and Festool variants are indeed different. I, for example, have two LO50e routers. As small routers they excell and in fact feel a bit less cumbersome than their Festool stablemates, however they lack the sophisticeted rail system of the Festool. For my purposes I did not need all the extras the Festool offered therefore I went for the cheaper option. The thing is that they come off the same production line and appear to be built to the same standards

There are other examples of variations on a theme, too. The Trend T9 had a bigger base opening than it's Felisatti family member (in the same way that the Trend T11 has changes from the original DW625), whilst the Metabo version comes with a dial indicator to more accurately set depth. The Fein version is almost identical to the original Felisatti apart from the colour and the shape of the body housing (plastic)

Another way things are done can be seen in the Mafell LNF19. Mafell LNF20, AEG biscuit jointer, the Atlas-Copco biscuit jointer and the Kress - all share the same front end, but all have different motors/gearboxes (the LNF19 in fact had a Kress motor/gearbox)

Finally there are the clones of each other not necessarily made by the same firm at all, but where many of the parts are identical and interchangeable. The most famous of these must be the Elu MOF96 which spawned variations from Einhell, Virutex, Black & Decker, deWalt and Perles (and probably a few more)

Scrit

 

[Adam]

Much like purchasing a clone machine doesn't mean you are getting an exact replica in all respects of the real thing.

Its not quite a clone though - its a different model, coming off the same line, produced by the same workers (who've presumably been trained to a fairly high standard for Festool), made/assembled with the same machines, and the same people doing the QA checks.

the max speed which is 22k rpm for the Mafell, and 24k rpm for the Festool - that suggests different electronics, and possibly bearings.

I don't know either way, but for any reasonable economy of scale, given they are both "premium" brand machines, they must share as much of the "guts" as possible. It may be nothing more than a potentiometer, or such similar thing that changes the electronics. I design electronics for three big customers, and I know that I've standardised everything. Its different on lower grade machines, where price is much more important, and a lower grade bearing, etc might made all the difference.

One has 55mm plunge, one has 50mm. If you look at the base, the castings are completely different

Yes, the casting would explain it.

I'd say the fact its built in the same factory, by the same people, and must by definition share many key parts, spindles etc, which are all made to a tolerance, and are likely to be checked by the same quality inspectors is a big plus.

I realise that maybe on applies in this case only.

Adam

 

[Jake]

I shouldn't have said 'much like', I didn't mean to say that this is the same thing as buying a clone, just that a similar danger of equating like with not-like exists.

Obviously the standards of assembly are going to be much closer with the same manufacturer, and they are likely to use the same parts wherever possible unless price is an issue.

That's where you can't tell without having one of each apart and comparing them.

For me, the Mafell stuff is generally pretty much up there with Festool anyway, irrespective of whether Mafell or Festool has made the thing.