Producing Flatpack Furniture ??? help please

[Tusses]

Anybody tried it ?

Any links to how toooos ?

I am trying budget online products, and have had - and can see , issues with shipping assembled items on a budget.

Flatpack seems to be a possible answer.

any ideas ?

ta

Rich

 

[ondablade]

I don't know much about it Rich, and I'm sure a lot depends on what you are trying to do - but flat pack to my mind didn't really take off until quite recently when the accuracy available from CNC profiling and other equipment kicked in.

Which probably suggests that (a) keeping control of quality is tough by other means, and (b) getting set up could be expensive unless you could possibly subcontract, and have decent volumes to make.

 

[Tusses]

hmmm...

Nope ... Just me in my shed ! :?

 

[Tusses]

The other option is to build one or two at a time and then take it/them apart for posting ?

 

[joiner_sim]

CNC machines are the way to go for flat pack assembly. When I worked with a furniture company they had a CNC Router machine that was a 10x6 ft bed (i think) that would do all the markings for things like draw runners and holes for dowels. It had the capability to cut full sheets and prepare the components at the same time. However, they invested in a beam saw which meant super fast sheet material cutting. They also had another machine run by computer that would drill hinges and things like that.

 

[cambournepete]

Flatpack seems to be a possible answer.

any ideas ?

Have a wander round your local Ikea - they're the experts in flat-pack.
OK, not to everybody's taste, especially on this forum, but they make it work.

 

[tomatwark]

You will need either to produce a lot of jigs to or invest in cnc machines, also most of it is made from sheet materials, so you will need an accurate and fast way of cutting it as all the components will need to be the same.

If you are going to send the stuff out mail order the assembly process will have to be silly person proof and the components will need to fit together well otherwise you will have customers ringing you saying they cannot assemble the piece.

I would look further into sending peices out assembled, there will probably be someone near to you with a van who does deliveries for the local antique dealers, who may be able to help you out.

Tom

 

[Tusses]

Flatpack seems to be a possible answer.

any ideas ?

Have a wander round your local Ikea - they're the experts in flat-pack.
OK, not to everybody's taste, especially on this forum, but they make it work.

They're a bit bigger than me in my shed though. Probably have different working practices, and hardware buying power !

 

[Tusses]

You will need either to produce a lot of jigs to or invest in cnc machines, also most of it is made from sheet materials, so you will need an accurate and fast way of cutting it as all the components will need to be the same.

If you are going to send the stuff out mail order the assembly process will have to be silly person proof and the components will need to fit together well otherwise you will have customers ringing you saying they cannot assemble the piece.

I would look further into sending peices out assembled, there will probably be someone near to you with a van who does deliveries for the local antique dealers, who may be able to help you out.

Tom

I'm looking at 10-20 a week, so not mass production. Half a days cutting at most. Jigs / patterns / spacer blocks etc should be ok.

Flat pack hardware ? I've never seen it for sale

Delivery really needs to be around a tenner. Much less than a van driver will get out of bed for !

 

[xy mosian]

Flat pack hardware ? I've never seen it for sale
!

Try http://www.woodfit.com/ they seem to cover most of what you might be looking for.

xy

 

[Tusses]

Flat pack hardware ? I've never seen it for sale
!

Try http://www.woodfit.com/ they seem to cover most of what you might be looking for.

xy

Thanks

 

[misterfish]

Screwfix do cam locks and cam dowels which may be what you want. Have a look at http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsess ... ton=submit

Misterfish

 

[Scrums]

Hi Rich

Why not try and find a local supplier of 'once used' boxes and pack that way - fortunately I have someone who delivers 100's at 66p each inc' vat - 600 x 400 x 340 deep, twin wall. With a good glue gun, sharp knife and 25mm polystyrene insulation sheet I can pack just about anything I make for less than a couple of quid and do it quickly and it gets there unscathed. So for a £10 delivery charge, which the customer is paying it costs me very little to send.

All the boxes are the same size - so I cannibalise them and telescope them together when I need larger/longer sizes.

Chris.

 

[Benchwayze]

I'd be tempted to design flat-pack furniture that doesn't rely on hard-to-find metal fastenings.

My daughter lives by flat-pack and because she doesn't have a man about the house any more she assembles it herself. (Except when she persuades me to do it.) She's usually in too much of a hurry to make stuff properly although I have shown her how to use basic tools.

As for the flat-pack stuff, she complains about

Panels that warp after a few weeks in the house.
Metal fixings that break and can't be replaced without going to source.
Limiting designs.
Confusing instructions for assembly.

The other day I helped her dissemble a wardrobe so she could get it into the bedroom of her new house.
The thing went back together much quicker than it came apart, believe me, so maybe experience helps!

However, there were some weird, rough and ready metal fixings on that, and the staples that secured the back in place were just about re-usable.

I hope that little list goes some way to helping you with things to avoid.

I know it's going to be difficult to design knock-down furniture without metal hardware, but maybe it could be done using a minimum of off the shelf, easily sourced fittings. (And PLEASE! Use thicker timber than is the norm! )

HTH

John

 

[ajmoran]

I've been involved in several setups that produce custom flatpack.

If it's mostly flat panels a beam saw is best (http://www.homag-uk.com/cms/Product/Pro ... roduct=689). A beam saw takes a whole sheet, clamps it and returns all the sized panels to you (with a bit of manual turning needed). Next best is a sliding table panel saw with CNC fence like the Altendorf F45.
Obviously non-CNC saws can be used but you need to keep on top of things to ensure the sizes are right and the cut quality is good.

With flatpack the usual material is melamine faced chipboard so you'll need an edgebander to cover the cut edges. Ideally this (http://www.homag-uk.com/cms/Product?g_iProduct=1093) but you could get away with this (http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/Products/T ... 18708.aspx). Once again with the latter type of machine in a production environment you need to keep on top of it to ensure the quality of the end result is good.
Thing is if you can't better the quality of production furniture from e.g. Ikea or don't provide some sort of customer customisation why would people buy from you!

On hardware I prefer Blum (who doesn't) and they also have a range of production jigs. For door hinges this is good (http://isaaclord.co.uk/productDetail.as ... t=5/366/39).

Starting off you can drill/route the hardware fixings yourself but this is the ultimate (http://www.homag-uk.com/cms/Product?g_iProduct=1127). Or you could go the full flatbed CNC route.

Regarding delivery, this stuff will be heavy and no doubt long if you do tall cabinets. If I could get delivery for £10 I would be delighted! However I think £40 is more realistic.

I also know a thing or two about design and production software...

Cheers
Andrew

 

[ondablade]

IKEA as Pete says above do a pretty good job on flat pack, and very consistently. (errors are very rare)

Another perspective on the CNC thing - the quality problems that surfaced in older flat pack stuff wasn't seen in ready to use furniture - presumably because assembly threw up pretty much all the issues with parts quality before it got out of the factory.

One way around not having access to or using CNC would be to assemble everything you make, then disassemble it to ship. It'd cost some extra labour, but if the items are simple then it mightn't be too big a deal. (it'd certainly beat the cost, hassle and embarrassment of trying to produce correct parts and ship them to the customer to fit after an error is found)

Tom mentions needing lots of jigs and fixtures. In a more production environment and without CNC you would as he says probably use (a) well made jigs and fixtures (with metal drill bushes and the like) to make the parts, and (b) another set of test fixtures (designed to pick up all the functional dimensions) you'd drop the parts into. The latter ideally would do it all in a single test, multiple steps with multiple fixtures leave open the risk of forgetting to use one.

The secret of a well designed test fixture is that once proven (you need to build some product using parts OKed on them to be sure) it greatly reduces the risk of human error (the dimensions are built into it), after that all you've got to do is remember to use it correctly.

Which in effect is what having all of the data in a CNC programme does too.....

 

[davin]

I make flat pack now and again (large wardrobes which don't fit up the stairs assembled for example),
And I use this,

http://www.hafele.co.uk/Hafele35a1/Temp ... illing+jig

I have three on a lockable slide rule. Once you have got your head around where to place them I find it very accurate and repeatable.

davin

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I have a feeling this guy don't mean large scale or even lots of sheet material.

Cam locks/ cam bolt which ever you call them are useless. I do flat pack, made with no sheet materials. I like M&T joints but provide screws to go through the joint so its more like a pegged M&T and a pot of glue. Also I like housing joints and rebates/rabbits again i provide glue and just screws. Its all simple to put together and I care little if an silly person buys one, its there fault for being the silly person hehe. If the screw will be visible for the exterior of the piece I design a cap that sits in and over the hole making it look like detail. Pocket screws can come in handy and customers like them bash in inserts you get for them to "hide" the screw. Make instructions clear like A fits into B also mark the joints with A and B etc. With a M&T all the pieces just slide together easy (you don't make them really tight) and you know its a great long lasting joint.

 

[dchallender]

I can probably give a different perspective here, by background i'm a manufacturing systems engineer and have run big global teams producing all sorts of things in the past, I now consult in this area for one of the Big 4 and one of the recurring things I see is products and services being provided that don't hit what the customer needs, so my advice to clients is always start with what the customer wants, understand that and then work out how to deliver it, most importantly is how to deliver it to cost so you make a profit, if you can't do that, then don't start.

So consider exactly what the customer wants from flat pack furniture, doing this is referred to as Voice of the Customer and from the comments that you already have you can start to create a 'wish list' for the customer. By this I mean is what is the fit, form and function the customer wants from this product and the service your are providing, so far we have

Quality product, (what exactly does this mean?)
Interchangeability of parts
Standard fittings that are easy accessible
Easy to assemble (Ikea has set the standard)
Consistency of parts
Low cost delivery
etc.

Once you understand this you can then work out how to provide what the customer actually needs, how to manage quality, delivery to cost, assemby, etc.
If you start to produce furniture that doesn't meet the needs of the customer then you'll struggle as any web based business quickly gets reviewed and comments will quickly get around, on the flip side produce that product that hits what the customer needs and expects and you'll be quids in.

Given the comments that have been made so far I would suggest that the way forward would be do a VOC, design it to meet the needs of the customer (easy of assembly etc.) and the manufacturing requirements (quality, consistency, etc.), then work out how to manufacture it - which may mean altering the design, then manufacture utilising the best methods to achieve this. By the sounds of it CNC is the way forward if not, jigs that provide the same output time and time again would be an alternative.

As a final comment, one of the most important things about this area is that as has been stated before Ikea has set the standard here and there will be high expectations, know your market and customer base first before you cut any wood.

Hope that helps

rgds

Darren

 

[Benchwayze]

Yes Darren.
Similar sentiments to those of my daughter, who doesn't have all the technical know-how.

In other words listen to the customer?

Glad I don't work any more!
Cheers
John