pre-veneered or veneer yourself

[LyNx]

Kitchen carcases.

Option 1: pre veneered boards and exposed lippings. Alot of expensive offcuts plus expensive for MR MDF veneered.

Option 2: 18mm MR MDF (£12 a sheet), 5mm solid lippings and over-veneer. Alot more work and the cost of the bag press. Nicer looking panels in the end.

Which option would you opt for, but please no. "I would use plywood" comments as this one's going to be MDF only :wink:

 

[Scrit]

The question really should be "How much veneering experience do you have?". Doing one carcass this way can be a pleasure. Doing even a small kitchen with 10+ carcasses can turn the job into one of the tasks of Hercules.

I'd either opt for lipping pre-veneered (Option 1) as it is probably cheaper than Option 2, or alternatively if it were a paying client who was being fussy the third option that I'm sure you meant to state, "Option 3: Sizing my boards, lipping and trimming them in house then putting them out to a veneering shop for face veneering".

Aesthetically I prefer the latter approach, but the budget rarely runs to that. Veneer wastage is tremendously high compared to solid timber and veneered MDF can seem pretty reasonable in comparison.

Scrit

 

[LyNx]

i didn't add option 3 as i couldn't trust anyone to get the matching leaves right :?

Try telling a veneering shop that they only have 3mm overhang in total as the veneers must line up. No,no,no - 10mm minimum

It's a job for myself, something to take time over, enjoy it and learn from it. I'm more pushed to option 2 as i then own a bag press ready for the large curved bath panel thats being spoken about 2 houses down :wink:

 

[JFC]

Ive just veneered 7 MDF boxes around 1500mm x 600mm x 70mm boxes with maple .
It took 3 carpenters 2 days to get it right and redo all the bubbles !
Its not an easy job !
Where are you getting MR MDF for £12 a sheet ?

 

[LyNx]

When you see the amount of sheet stock we go through in a week, you'll see how we get it at this price :wink:

 

[JFC]

How many sheets a week to get it at that price ?

 

[LyNx]

i'll find out but most of the buying power is from chipboard.

 

[Scrit]

Sounds like pack price (40 to 50 sheets) to me

Scrit

 

[JFC]

Sounds like a pack price for normal MDF to me .

 

[LyNx]

been told that we are cutting around 500 on a bad week to 1000 on a good week.

Normal MDF is alot cheaper than that

 

[JFC]

:shock: That will be why you get a good price ! I hope you wear a mask :lol:

 

[engineer one]

alright amateur viewpoint.

why are you using "real wood" for the insides, melamine or its equivalent is cleaner, looks better and makes it easier to find things outside.
so suggestion is anything either veneered or painted for the inner
units, and then the end one and their panels are done individually
with what ever veneeer you want.

my view on something like a kitchen is to remember the old professionals
they used the best wood on the outside, and the less good for those bits which were not going to be seen all the time.

in a kitchen, most of the time, it is the doors, and rails and stiles. then it is the end panels, so make those "pukka" certainly don't waste your time and
effort on things which are not going to be seen.

remember many manufacturers have separate end panels to hide the ugly bits.

still justifies the cost of the vacuum bag. :twisted: :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[LyNx]

why are you using "real wood" for the insides

easy one that, i don't like plastic finishes and i have a nice supply of real wood veneers to hand.

I know what your saying about time but i have the time on this kitchen so i don't mind spending a couple of days per unit.

 

[engineer one]

trust me lynx what ever you think now, you will find that it will get to be a drudge, and you will want to finish which is when the problems occur.

i understand the fact of having decent bits around, but why waste them?

i will repeat that wood interiors tend to be dark and somewhat forbidding
also you tend not to think about cleaning them so often as might be necessary.

this is also why i always suggest to people that in any under counter top units they have sliding out shelves. if they do not have drawers, they might seem wasteful in space, but they ensure you can easily reach things, and when you get past a certain age, when you end up having senior moments, it is better than scrabbling on your hands and knees.

anyway that is my suggestion which is of course why you asked, you don't have to take it on board, it is just a thought to look at more carefully. :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

I will repeat that wood interiors tend to be dark and somewhat forbidding also you tend not to think about cleaning them so often as might be necessary.

Unless they're something like American white ash or white beech. But I have to agree that light coloured cabinet interiors work better. I'm also in favour of using melamine-faced or laminate-clad chipboard for carcasses: it holds screws better than MDF, but the biggest plus is that the surface is quick and easy to clean. Much as I like lacquered timber on the outside tit is decidedly less practicial omn the inside in the long term - 20 to 30 years in the cases of many kitchens. As it happens I also dislike spending hours finishing the insides of carcasses......

Paul's commentss about pull-outs are very valid. I've had one house in the past where I put in a kitchen with them and they were well worth the extra money in terms of sheer convenience. When I replace my present kitchen that will certainly get at least one full-height pull-out larder unit despite being a very small kitchen.

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

thanks scrit, a compliment i think.
i retro fitted one of these tall pullouts in a friends kitchen.
it works great BUT

all the screws are on the right hand side of the unit so whenyou are fitting it, there is some logic to actually fitting it on the left of units if you can.
it is a real pia balancing on one leg and tickling screws by hand because of the inconvenient location. why they cannot make them universal i'll
never know. mind you that was a hafele or such, not tried those done
in B&Q,or ikea.

paul :wink:

 

[LyNx]

the pull-out larders are great. I fitted the larger 600mm wide central fitted one from Hafele. Pretty easy stuff and easy to adjust.

I did plan, and may still on having white oak interiors. If i want to be lazy then i could lacquer all the components at lunch time using the finishing line here (mini gloat) but i want to try and do this kitchen in my single garage.

 

[lugo35]

we use veneered interiors. plastic just does'nt do it. customers paying 20k+ for a kitchen dont want MFI. they want something different.

 

[engineer one]

yes but if you are spending 20 k do you not want solid wood rather than veneers also.

the comment is of course relevant, but as both scrit and i say, lightness
is the thing for a working kitchen inside the units, so i guess the idea is
to try and arrange that the interior is in pale wood.

always interesting that men design and build kitchens but generally,
women use them, and they tend to be more interested in interior function.

anyone who has never used a kitchen should not design one. :twisted:

paul

 

[Shady]

Quite amusing: just seen a friend's new kitchen, at about 20k, and she was surprised when she realised that the shelving and carcasses were sheet goods... I pointed out that they were never going to warp, easily cleaned, and properly lipped: a lovely example of form following function.

This was in a barn conversion: for me, the most interesting part was the fitter's skill in scribing the units to a Cotswold stone wall - very well done indeed.

So yes, the uninformed customer does want solid wood - but not once they've lived with it for a year or so. A kitchen is a classic example of needing to balance purity of design against practicality...

(Sorry, hope this makes sense: 3 sheets in the wind after surviving a visit to extremely difficult father-in-law, his 'partner', and unbelievably irritating sister-in-law and husband... A day of exactly the sort of yuppie point scoring/car comparing/rival jewellery boasting that drives me to drink and violence...)