poor quality products

[mclarenf1racer]

I have to say that I am getting really angry with products that are brought to the market promising this that and the next thing and fail to deliver on any.
I am not talking about hugely expensive things for instance
I bought a range of different sized silverline quick clamps, verdict is rubbish, the handles all break when you put (and I laugh here) TOO much pressure on them!
macallister variable speed orbital sander from a Uk diy store, verdict is rubbish, the Velcro pads rip off, the screw that holds the disc in place keeps on working itself loose resulting in the disk coming off.
I bought some sash cramps off of a well known internet auction site, they were brand new, but the bars were made of really thin aluminum and the clamps keep on sticking, when you put good pressure on them they flex!!
black and decker pendulum jigsaw, the blade kept on jumping out of its guide so wasn't able to cut straight or where you wanted it.
erbauer erb052BTE planer thicknesser, cant get a straight flat edge in a month of Sundays, rollers dont pull material through, doesn't like taking anything other than a micro mm off, and even then the snipe if you can call it that is ridiculous.
i could go on but i think you get the message, why do these companies get away with making products that are not fit for purpose.
The reason I bought them was partly to do with the price, but you end up paying double.
to stock a workshop you need a bottomless wallet.

 

[Dodge]

I must admit there is alot of cr*p but there are also some very reasonably priced tools which do the job very well.

Unfortunately I think all your purchases have been from the makers I would never recommend - Silverline/Erbauer/Macallister - they are all about as much use as a chocolate teapot!

Unfortunately profit is put before product these days!

Rog

 

[Steve Maskery]

The reason I bought them was partly to do with the price, but you end up paying double.

Only partly the price, what other criteria helped you to make the decision? Did you read any favourable reports of them - other than those of the manufacturer / seller?
All the products you have listed are notorious for their entry-level quality, so that is why I ask the question.

to stock a workshop you need a bottomless wallet.

No, although it's not a cheap hobby (unless you compare it to F1 racing, I suppose), but you do need to spend your money wisely.

When I started work, my dad told me to buy one tool every week. It didn't matter if it was a carpenter's pencil or a tablesaw, but buy one tool and make sure you buy a good one. So a good screwdriver at £10 is a better purchase than an electric sander at £10 (because a good electric sander costs more than £10).

If it's any consolation, we've all bought something we thought was a bargain only to be disappointed. Nor is it new:
“There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey ..." - John Ruskin.

If cheap were the same as good there would no place in the world for Lie-Neilsen, Festool and many other companies who charge a premium price for a high-quality product.

Sorry if the above sounds harsh, especially as you are new round here (welcome, by the way - there is a Tools Review forum you find helpful in future) but look upon it as an education.

Cheers
Steve

 

[chippy1970]

silverline
macallister
black and decker
erbauer

Sorry but what do you expect most of those names you have mentioned are complete rubbish.

 

[9fingers]

Selective purchasing of second hand quality brands is usually a better bet and cost about the same a new, budget stuff.

A lesson learned the hard way in your case.
Good luck for future buys.
Bob

 

[Eric The Viking]

We've all been there, to some extent.

Time was when imports were cheap and everyone was making lots of money, so replaced anything that broke, whenever it broke. Now people are being more careful, and my guess is that the better brands will survive and the horrid rubbish ones will go to the wall.

If you want to buy better, browse the buying advice/reviews forum. There are a number of well thought-of manufacturers and suppliers that get consistently good recommendations, both for quality and customer service, and they aren't necessarily more expensive than the competition.

I used to work in an industry (not this one!) with very few actual manufacturers, but lots of brands. We were a leading brand, and one difference between our product and that of other brands was the QC we imposed on the manufacturer. Stuff we would have rejected, they sold elsewhere to other people.

For certain 'standard' tools, it's obvious that many different brands originate in the same shed in China. Bandsaws and pillar drills especially come into this category, yet there are still big quality differences. I think this is very often the quality control imposed by the brand/importer after manufacture.

In my experience, if you inquire of the buying advice/reviews forum people are very helpful.

Cheers,

E.

 

[mailee]

I have to agree with all of the above. As has been stated many many times on here 'Buy quality, buy once' I have been there too with the cheap rubbish tools and ended up replacing them as I went along. Most of my early purchases were quality second hand and most of them are still in use today.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

Selective purchasing of second hand quality brands is usually a better bet and cost about the same a new, budget stuff.

A lesson learned the hard way in your case.
Good luck for future buys.
Bob

Well said, I buy as much stuff as possible second hand. Never buy cheap new stuff as it never lasts and I've never heard a good report on any of the brands you mention above -sorry to say. Do some research mate. There are plenty of reviews and topics on this forum alone, never mind the rest of t'interweb. Clamps especially adhere to the rule 'you get what you pay for'.

Good luck _Dan.

 

[brihol]

"why do these companies get away with making products that are not fit for purpose."

Sorry, but in a way you've answered your own question - because there are inexperienced people like your good self out there who buy the cheapest going on impulse perhaps, only to regret it when you put the tools to work.

As SM said - do your research first. Then spend a bit more than you intended.

Brian

 

[Dangermouse]

Sorry to hear that you are having so much grief with all the new stuff. Totally agree most new moderately priced tools are RUBBISH. I would say that my experiences with faithfull have been fine so far, but the others like Rolson, sliverline etc etc are not worth the material they are made from. I nearly always go for good secondhand tools. With planes usually the older the better. Obviously go for the ones that are in good condition. Best places I find my tools are at car boot sales and good old ebay. Just last week got a lovely Record no6 plane, sharpened the blade and it cuts like a razor. Only needs a bit of cleaning. Cost me £15.00, now to get one as good new, your looking at a Lie Nieson or Clifton sort of thing at the top end for two or three hundred pounds or one of Matthew's fine Quangsheng Planes at £120.00. I probably will put one of Matthew's plane irons and caps into it and bingo a premium plane for £45.00.

cheers
George

 

[t8hants]

As has been said it is not a modern phenomenon, if you look at the piles of ancient junk at boot fairs you soon realise that for every quality tool sold there were 200 useless versions. Woolworth's would sell a 'real' wood plane for 6d, whilst a tool shop would stock one at 19/6d, which do you think was the better buy. Just because its old doesn't mean it hasn't been rubbish for the last 50 years, sadly tools are not wine, or whiskey they don't mature with age.

G

 

[Scouse]

Buy cheap and you buy twice. #-o

 

[dickm]

Agree wholeheartedly with the "buy good secondhand, not modern cheap", but with two provisos. First, you have to know what is good secondhand, because there was some rubbish made years ago even if most of it has now reached its true fate on the scrap heap. But second, there may be occasions when you need a specific tool which will probably only be used a couple of times and sit in a drawer for the rest. Then, it may be worth gambling - I've bought the odd Lidl or Aldi cheapo item like core drills, rightangle drive etc., which just come in handy occasionally and where I couldn't justify the price of a Starrett or professional Bosch equivalent.

 

[RogerP]

I agree with all that's been said, buy cheap - buy twice, and I've made mistakes in the past but I do get a bit cynical about some of the stuff put out by the premium brands. Okay they're great tools and will no doubt work well and last long but I just wish they weren't quite so obviously "pretty".

 

[baldpate]

If you are inexperienced, like me, but want to learn, there may be another reason for buying cheap: you can actually learn a lot from buying and trying a rubbish tool.

- Do you actually need such a tool at all? (how often do you use it? is it in fact suited to the sort of things you do?)
- Is it 'good enough' for occasional use? (this is dickm's point, I think - and as he says, you're taking a chance, because you may not be able to tell in advance if the tool is completely useless or just unrefined and slow to set up/difficult to use)
- If you actually need the tool, what was wrong with the tool you bought? (as you use the tool, you'll work out what it's deficiencies are. This will help you choose better tools of the same class in the future, because you'll know from first hand experience what's needed.)

The first router I bought (part of a bundle, 2nd hand, off eBay) was a complete piece of rubbish. But the process of trying to use it, and of working out why it was rubbish (sticky plunge, warped base, poor depth stop, no fine height adjustment, non-standard size / worn collet, impossible to lock-on the power switch ) prompted me to learn and helped guide my subsequent purchases. Example of the third reason. You might consider it a waste of money. I consider it a cheap education!

I bought a Parkside scroll saw at about 1/2 the price of other cheap equivalents, because I occasionally wanted to cut curved shapes (e.g handles for jigs). I could do it with a hand saw, but it's a pain. I'm sure it wouldn't suit somebody whose was really into scroll-sawing, but it suits my rough needs. Example of the second reason.

A long while ago I bought a Macalister belt sander (first power sander ever). I thought 'lots of grunt' = 'more useful tool'. How wrong! Completely pointless for the sort of woodworking I want to do. Almost uncontrollable. Can't even be fixed to a bench and used that way. Lesson learned - example of first reason.

Gaining knowledge never comes free - you pay either with : time (researching on the internet, then practice); money (as above, buy a cheapie, and find out what's wrong with it, why it's unsuitable); or body parts (not recommended !)

 

[theartfulbodger]

I read most of the posts on this forum with interest as I'm just starting out myself.

I have some old tools that still work really well after years of use, BandQ sander, jigsaw and cordless drill/driver for starters

Here's my question
If I was buying spanners/sockets I would (and did!) go for Halfords Professional. Lifetime gaurantee (that I have tested and it works) solid well made tools, cheaper than "snap on" better than "draper". All in all brilliant and not just good for the price. I'd recommend them to anyone.

Is there a woodworking tool brand that is the equivalent of Halfords? Decent quality stuff that's affordable but doesn't have the prestige name to attract the trophy hunters / commercial users?

 

[Dodge]

Another point that should be considered here is that an inferior quality product will not do the job in the same was as a better quality machine and whilst you can buy a 1/4" shank router for £20 it will in no way work as well as a £100 machine. Because of better bearings there will be far less vibration and the tool will be easier to handle as well as less likely to cause white finger problems during prolonged use.

If you are new to woodworking PLEASE buy the best quality you can afford - One good tool is worth ten rubbish ones and by the time you have bought two cheapies and ruined some good wood using them you will have wasted the money that could have bought a good tool in the first instance.

A good quality tool will last for many years - my freud biscuit jointer as example cost me £80 about 12 years ago - despite having been very heavily used it is still like new (Blade been sharpened/replaced of course) Would a £39.99 job from B&Q last as well as this and stand up to continued heavy use? I think not


My opinion anyway

Rog

 

[mclarenf1racer]

I am really loving the replies to my post, I appreciate your inputs and it is lessons learned.
I suppose when i start out with nothing and am looking to do much, I need to get lots in a short period of time, so thats why I ended up with some rubbish, have started replacing most of my stuff with more decent stuff, hope to one day have a well kitted out home workshop.
think replacing clamps is next on my list, although the planer thicknesser I bought I thought would be good stuff for the money, boy did I get that wrong.
will certainly look through the reviews on here.
thanks

 

[studders]

As has been said it isn't always wise to 'buy the best', even if you could afford to. Sometimes it's just common sense to buy 'good enough'. An example - I wanted to put some threaded inserts on my new TS200, as someone else has done, because getting the side panels off/on is truly a frustrating experience. So, did I buy a pucker tool for £60 + for the job? Like hell I did, I bought a Chaiwan copy for a tenner of the bay. It came with guarantee, it did the job even though the tool itself is of obvious poor quality and I doubt it will last long were I using it every day, but I aint. So now I have £10 worth of tool sitting in a drawer, I may use it again, I may not. Better than having £60 worth of tool doing the same.

 

[ondablade]

'Good enough to do the job acceptably well for a while' is one thing (then it becomes a matter of choice), but I'm pretty much of the view that the major reason that many junk tools exist is that they are purposely designed to trap the inexperienced beginner - which to my mind can only have a seriously negative effect on attitudes towards DIY and the development of manual skills in general.

It's hard enough starting off at stuff like this on your own - without being put off by tools that don't work at the same time. Back in the day I guess that apprenticeships (learning supervised) may have helped some to avoid the issue. For all their vagaries thank goodness for forums providing a platform for user feedback - because (barring you have a lot to do with experienced users) it'd otherwise be very tough to figure out buying strategies and we'd be totally at the mercy of the vested interests.

It must drive many out of the hobby and DIY ends of woodworking - never knowing that many of the issues they have run up against are nothing to do with them.

There's a fair amount of gormlessness about that can't be protected from itself too (so there's no point getting all politically correct about the issue), but it's a pity the various media channels tend to be so much in thrall to advertisers that they rarely speak out clearly for those with ears to hear.

I'm very uncomfortable with the 'best to learn the hard way'/'serves you right for being cheap' sorts of views. It's to my mind 100% wrong that the sellers of this sort of stuff get away with it given how misleading/weasel worded most of the blurb tends to be.

Take the newly married chap who has never really done anything much before (there's lots of families where DIY/technical skills are almost totally absent, so it's not his fault) gaily trotting down to his local shoe box to buy stuff to do a bit of DIY and hobby woodworking - having promised all sorts to herself.

They get trapped in the same way as most of us do in other similar situations - we find it tough to take in the possibility that such absolute junk masquerades as decent kit.

The 'appalling vista' describes a well recognised psychologically driven pattern of behaviour. When faced with one - a situation where behaviours that conflict with our deeply held expectations are actually the norm but are pervasively claimed to be otherwise we tend to rationalise to support our conditioned view rather than confront the reality - especially when there are added factors driving us to do so like the fact that we really don't want to face the fact that we haven't enough budget to do what we want to do if we buy better stuff....