plough plane

[Melinda_dd]

Hi all

I've just bought an old plough plane, and was wondering, the blades/irons, are they suppose to have 2 angles on them (like chisels/normal planes) or is it one continueus angle.

They currently all have 1 angle... not sure if all are the same or what the angle is.... just curious really.

Can anyone advise of angles etc.

 

[devonwoody]

I have only used and seen the one angle over 50 years.

I would guess the angle is 25% but my memory is not what it used to be.

Edit, it appears my memory is on the blink, members are quoting 30 to 35% so I am happy to stand down.

 

[Jacob]

Hi all

I've just bought an old plough plane, and was wondering, the blades/irons, are they suppose to have 2 angles on them (like chisels/normal planes) or is it one continueus angle.

They currently all have 1 angle... not sure if all are the same or what the angle is.... just curious really.

Can anyone advise of angles etc.

There is no 'supposed' about it.
For all edges one single bevel is best as there is more steel (and support) behind the edge, making it more solid and less chattery.
The two-bevel thing is to make sharpening easier and is a bit of a cheat What's the point in having a thick blade and then grinding it thin? Answer - it helps if you are struggling with honing jigs.

30º ish

 

[Racers]

Dam, looks like I need to re-sharpen all my planes and chisels, I'm going to be gone for some time chaps, carry on with out me.




















Second thoughts naa, can't be bothered as they work fine with two bevels.


Pete

 

[Jacob]

Dam, looks like I need to re-sharpen all my planes and chisels, I'm going to be gone for some time chaps, carry on with out me.
Second thoughts naa, can't be bothered as they work fine with two bevels.


Pete

Planes, especially bevel down like Melinda's plough, will work better with one bevel.
I'd just do one at a time if I was you, as and when. You'll get them right eventually!

 

[Racers]

"Right" Mmmmm


Pete

 

[Sheffield Tony]

For what it's worth, the Record instruction booklet for the 050C recommends a single bevel, at 35 degrees. They also recommend using a honing guide, perhaps not surprisingly, the one they made ...

As far as I can tell, so long as the angle is not so shallow that it leaves a weak edge (<25), and is not as steep as the bedding angle of the plane (>45) , it should not matter a lot ? Presumably this is the logic for 35 degrees.

 

[Paul Chapman]

For what it's worth, the Record instruction booklet for the 050C recommends a single bevel, at 35 degrees.

One of the reasons for keeping to a single, 35 degrees for combination plane blades is so that you don't alter the shape of the beading and other shaped cutters. If you were to alter the shape of the cutting edge, it would be difficult to get it back to what it should be.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Melinda - the irons of wooden plough planes were traditionally sharpened with a single bevel, of about 30 to 35 degrees. I can't find the reference where I read this, but from memory the reason is to ensure that during sharpening, the edged isn't rounded. With the whole flat of the bevel in contact with the stone, pressure can be applied by a finger on the flat side above the bevel, and the rest of the hand used to support the iron perpendicular to the stone and prevent rocking. Obviously, that's more a problem with the narrower irons. I suspect the practice just carried over when iron ploughs started to become available. Given the relatively small size of a the smaller plough iron bevels, single bevel sharpening doesn't take too long.

By the way, if your wooden plough doesn't have it's full set of (usually) 8 irons (1/8" to 5/8"), spare sets and loose irons come up quite regularly on Ebay, and the good secondhand dealers often have spares in stock. Not all plough irons fit all plough planes, so if you can visit a dealer taking your plough, you'll have a better chance of completing the set without buying duds. For metal ploughs, spare irons are available on Ebay, or new from makers such as Ray Iles.

 

[No skills]

FWIW my ebayed record 04(something) came with single bevel irons, worked straight out the box too which I loved.

 

[DTR]

I'm sure I posted in here, did it get deleted?

 

[Jacob]

The main thing about the single bevel is that it gives the most support behind the blade where it rests on the body of the plane. Rebate plane blades and similar are thin and narrow so need the support. Thin wider blades do too - an ordinary thin 2" plane blade performs better if the frog is set back to the mouth so the back of the blade bears on the lip. If it is sharpened with two bevels there is less bearing area.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

The difference in metal between a single bevel and double bevel is tiny all most negligible, in the overall scheme of things it’s a low importance compared to how well the blade is bedded and how sharp it is.


Pete

 

[Jacob]

Hi, Jacob

The difference in metal between a single bevel and double bevel is tiny all most negligible, in the overall scheme of things it’s a low importance compared to how well the blade is bedded and how sharp it is.


Pete

Hi Pete
Don't agree. A 25º bevel is going to remove a significant amount of metal from the most critical part of the blade resting against the frog or the body as compared to 30º to 35º, leaving the cutting edge less well supported.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

So if I threw this significant amount of metal at you would it hurt?

It’s just a couple of strokes on a stone, I find it hard to believe that will make any difference at all.

Work out the amount of material removed and its stiffness, I think it will me infinitesimal.

Pete

 

[Paul Chapman]

The main thing about the single bevel is that it gives the most support behind the blade where it rests on the body of the plane. Rebate plane blades and similar are thin and narrow so need the support. Thin wider blades do too - an ordinary thin 2" plane blade performs better if the frog is set back to the mouth so the back of the blade bears on the lip. If it is sharpened with two bevels there is less bearing area.

Jacob, are you saying that you adjust your plane so that the honed bevel rests on the body of the plane :? That must require a lot of fiddling about.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I think there's a misunderstanding here. Jacob is not talking about the bit polished off in making the secondary bevel, he's talking about the metal removed by grinding the primary bevel to say, 25 rather than 35 degrees.

Dangerous though it may be, I'm inclined to agree with him. with an 1/8" thick iron, grinding to 25 rather than 35 degrees moves the top of the grinding bevel, and hence the support of the plane bed, ~2.5mm further away from the cutting edge. Whether it matters is debatable, plough plane irons are usually not fully supported by a proper bed as such anyway.

 

[Jacob]

The main thing about the single bevel is that it gives the most support behind the blade where it rests on the body of the plane. Rebate plane blades and similar are thin and narrow so need the support. Thin wider blades do too - an ordinary thin 2" plane blade performs better if the frog is set back to the mouth so the back of the blade bears on the lip. If it is sharpened with two bevels there is less bearing area.

Jacob, are you saying that you adjust your plane so that the honed bevel rests on the body of the plane :? That must require a lot of fiddling about.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

No. I adjust so that the frog and the mouth are dead in line, so the back of the blade (not the bevel) will rest on the lip of the mouth. I've had to explain this a lot, apparently because people don't look at their planes very closely. When they finally get around to it they see what I mean! Go on - have a look, there's a first time for everything!

 

[Jacob]

I think there's a misunderstanding here. Jacob is not talking about the bit polished off in making the secondary bevel, he's talking about the metal removed by grinding the primary bevel to say, 25 rather than 35 degrees.

Dangerous though it may be, I'm inclined to agree with him. with an 1/8" thick iron, grinding to 25 rather than 35 degrees moves the top of the grinding bevel, and hence the support of the plane bed, ~2.5mm further away from the cutting edge. Whether it matters is debatable, plough plane irons are usually not fully supported by a proper bed as such anyway.

Exactly. And if it is also a narrow blade then this is even more important.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

A narrow blade removes less wood=less force on the blade.

Pete