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kityuser

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imagine the scene, cornered in comet, pregnant wife with failing eye sight demanding a larger tv (the reply "just move closer to the screen" is not met with much success)........

I was rail-roaded in buying bloody great plasma thingy :shock:

my worry is that from some of the things you read on the web, maybe they don`t last very long (about 20,000 hours seems a quoted figure).
I was under the impression that all of the manufactures offered a life-time warranty on the actual plasma matrix...... but seems not.

My screen is fine, but I`m worried about what happens if I get a problem (blown or stuck pixel) after the 1 year warranty, which is in ADDITION to your consumer rights (7 years as stated on the trading standards web-site).

I`m interested in peoples opinions/experience..........

If I do get a problem within 20,000 hours how do i prove that it was a manufacturing problem and thus get philips to fix it under the consumer rights laws?


steve
 

Vormulac

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Hi Kityuser,

I'm thinking of investing in a plasma tv before too long, so I'll be keen to hear your thoughts on the experience (also which model etc etc).

I don't think the 20000 hours thing is much of an issue, as unless I'm mistaken, even watching it for 10 hours straight every day, that would still work out at over 5 years - not a feat your average CRT would be guaranteed of, I'm sure!

I was under the impression from what little research I've done into this, that if you are going to get dead pixels, it'll either be right from the word go or very soon afterwards, they don't tend to 'develop' as such.

V.
 
A

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Hi Steve
Don't last very long? 20,000 hours eh? 2.28 years of 24hrs per day watching!! That's more tv than I will watch in my entire life :)

Or, on average let's say that a tv is on 4 hours per day, 7 days per week, (seems a lot to me) then you get 13.7 years of use!

On TFT etc, pixels usually are defective at manufacture and I believe that they do not genereally fail over time individually; you are far more likely to have the power supply or something similar blow which is a definite warranty job

Also, you will do well to spot individulal pixel failure unless sitting right up against the screen
 

kityuser

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pixel failure can develop due to the half-life of the gas used, i.e. if one pixel is over-excited it can "burn-out"

i.e. would not be evident from the factory.

would I notice one pixel? I`m not sure that is the point...... I paid 1500 squid for the dame thing!

I also use my tvs alot for games and stuff, so yes I probably would notice.

20,000 hours really is`nt that much compared to CRT life-time, my old-man still has a black and white telly thats getting on for 20 years old.

4 hours a day.... and the rest!
I have alot of hobbies (guitar, ww, computers, cars) but Mrs kityuser reads infront of the telly. Bearing in mind that she won`t be working soon (little`n on the way), and at the moment its on from 16:30 until about 22:30..................

anyone out there have one of the first gen plasmas? any problems?

I spent quite a while looking into the plasma V LCD issue (mags, internet) (last year)and came to the following conclusions (not intended to start an argument here, plenty of places you can find that on the web on this issue):

plasma:
1) can suffer "burn in"
2) quoted as lasting 20,000 hours
3) less pricey than lcd
4) HEAVY
5) can suffer power supply problems due to the screen loads/fans/etc
6) more "attractive" to view for movies (generalisation across the industry based on contrast control, "digitisation effect", response time ect)
7) no restricted viewing angles

LCD:
1) longer predicted life time (maybe....)
2) can have "reponse time" issues, i.e. bluring of faster moving objects
3) more "digital" looking
4) no TRUE black (appears as very dark grey)
5) expensive
6) can have contrast issues on cheaper models
7) presently have size issues (big ones are £££££)
8) far better definition
9) restricted viewing angles (quoted angles do not take into account for colour distortion, i.e i can see a picture at 60 degrees, but what is it?...)

note: this is completely subjective, its what I`VE found out, if you don`t agree with what I`ve found then I`m sorry.
(really, people argue FAR to much about this on the net!).

By far the best viewing experience (from my point of view) is CRT, but due to space and size (37inch crt...... not way) it was`nt possible.


regards

steve
 

Philly

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Kity
I badly want a big Plasma screen, but the Powers That Be have come up one other thing.....
"You have just bought that bl##dy table saw you going on about forever!"

Sadly the Plasma screen was thumbs down'ed.... :cry:
Maybe when she's not looking I'll put one on her credit card! Thank God for the Internet, eh?
On a more serious note, have you connected your PC up to it? Whats the picture like? I tried plugging mine into my telly-very horrible!!! :x
Good luck with your screen,
Cheers
Philly :D
 

kityuser

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ow..... proper VGA input (RGB + digital)

picture looks very nice!


just as a side point, using RGB from a pucka dvd player and a big telly u can see just how poor some dvd-discs are! lots of compression :shock:

and don`t even get me started about the quality of "sky" :x

steve
 

Vormulac

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I think we can probably all think of examples of still-working telly sets that Noah may have watched the weather report on, but let's be honest, they are from a different age, they weigh a ton and will never break because they and all their components are made from granite - not fairy plastic like these days. For the couple of old tellies that are still working, there are many many more that have gone phut within the sort of timescale we're talking about here.

However, which would you rather watch The Incredibles on in your living room, a bombproof 15" screen with dodgy colour or a sextastic 42" with all the trimmings?

Seriously though, to address your issues, 20,000 hours (and remember, this is only a quoted minimum expectation, by no means a maximum) is a long operating life for an appliance. From what I've read there is very little concern with current plasmascreens losing pixels - as you correctly said - it is possible, but not a widely reported problem.

As for Plasma vs LCD, well, you got it - money. Expect to pay many times the price of a plasmascreen for a comparatively sized LCD, and although you get higher resolutions, everything else suffers (contrast, contouring, etc). This is from research I've done and the one guy I know who has had a plasmascreen for a while. Which one have you got?

I'm eager to know how you get on with it - is it all up and running or are you awaiting the arrival of shiny kit? :D

V.
 

kityuser

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ow no, I refuse to buy from comet, crurrys et al unless I can take it with me!

I got the philips 37" Widescreen Flat tv 37PF9946/12 .

on special offer at comet (about 1500 if I remember)

I`ve really chuffed with it, it looks great and performs to all my expectations.

I have a mate who as a top of the range pioneer(external controller box), proper job.... above the fire place and everything! I would`nt say that mine was as nice but for the price I thought mine was a real steal, and all the gubbins hangs on the back (no external control box)....



well chuffed, although a little lighter in the wallet :oops:

steve
 

Vormulac

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A very wise policy concerning our fine high street purveyors of boxed electrickery! :twisted:

£1500 with mounts included - nice one! :D

The CRT I'll replacing is a Philips, the've always been right up there for quality/value in my opinion.

Glad it's fufilling your expectations, I'm feelng slightly happier about splashing the cash on one myself now :)

V.
 

kityuser

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I have quizzed philips (to length) and am awaiting a reply about my concerns (I`m always a worrier :? )

I`ll keep you informed.

one VERY slight niggle I have is the lack of inputs on the side i.e. for games and camcorders etc.

they are ALL round the back :? never mind

I`ve always been quite a fan of philips, but then again I would say that would`nt I :shock:

just to give a comparision, my 37 inch plasma was about the same price as most 23-26 inch LCDs.

get this..... this will make you smile:
they tried to sell me a £150 supply suppressor (mains noise/surge protector) :shock: the demonstration tv had a split screen (vertically) with the left side supposidly protected and the right side not. What I can`nt figure is how they managed to run a tv with 2 power supplies :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I quizzed the bloke about it, be bumbled about for ages before admitting that it was a complete scam.

laughing

steve
 

mahking51

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FWIW
Plasma screens main use until recently were in broadcast TV areas, studio monitors, newsrooms etc. Then came the domestic explosion with prices starting to plummet, all good news...
But...

They are heavy although nothing like CRT's. Don't think you can hang one on any old stud wall! Obviously their small footprint is a huge plus.

They get HOT, ask Andy Peters.

There can be significant fan noise, varies from model to model.

You need to be a reasonable distance from the screen to avoid a 'swimming' sensation on some units. Not a good idea to have a 42" screen in a 12' living room IMHO.

Viewing angles are usually overstated, check for yourself.

Blacks are never as good on Plasma and LCD as on a good CRT.

If I had to pick one it would be a Sony or Panasonic as we use these all the time at work and they take a lot of abuse being slung around all over the place, in and out of flight cases. Very few problems with them.

Just a few rambling thoughts...

My own TV? 36" Panasonic PFT Tau CRT in 18' room, simply superb, but takes up a lot of space.
regards
Martin
 

kityuser

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they get hot?

mine has just been on for 10 hours straight, and is less than luke warm to the touch, there is a slight warmness coming from the back but this is many times less than on the back of my 24 inch sony crt.

my mates top of the range pioneer is exactly the same, bearly warm to the touch, I would desribe it as slightly above room temperature.

I would consider the hot-to-touch issue to be an old wives tale for modern plasmas, I went round touching all available in a local comet, currys, dixons and alders (got bollocked in a few for it as well) and NON of them could be described as HOT. I would say that the warmest was a massive sony that I would describe as luke warm.

Radiant heat however can be felt, but that is true of any strong light source, large crts included.

As a direct comparision I would say that the black on my plasma is as good as on my sony crt (tested with the xbox start up screen, i.e. black and green) my lcd pc monitor is pathetic.

Also observing text from the sky digital menu is as good if not better on the plasma than on the crt or lcd.

the viewing angle on my plasma is as close to 180 degrees as I can observe, i.e. with no colour distortion.

My crt is about the same, but the lcd is around 80 degrees.


I would agree with the noise issue, my philips does produce an audiable hum when the volume is lowered, presumably caused by the fans and gubbins on the back.


regards


steve
 

trevtheturner

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Well, anyway, our TV went phut! :shock: last spring and I think LOML really, really does deserve a new one now (and the six-nations starts soon :twisted: ).

Our daughter has a Phillips 36" CRT set and it is superb. We have a 28' room which will easily take a 36" CRT.

If I can resist going above 36" is there really any point in buying a plasma set, or even a large LCD at twice the price or more? Just want a good TV - not interested in games or gizmos. Already have a DVD/cinema sound system ready to connest.

Any advice most welcome.

Incidentally, FWIW, the Panasonic shop in Hereford is at present giving a FIVE year guarantee at no extra cost on most TVs of all types - CRT, LCD & plasma. (haven't looked at the small print or compared prices with other brands).

Cheers,

Trev.
 

kityuser

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I`d go crt everyday with a room that size, the only reason I went for a plasma was to fit it in the corner where it had to go, a crt would never have fitted.

crt is cheap, a well know technology and more "natural" looking, if you have the space IMO this is the way to go.

best way to tell is to go look at some.

I`ve seen the philips crt you are talking about and its MASSIVE, I seem to remember that it weights a stupid amount as well :shock:

steve
 

trevtheturner

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Thanks, Steve. Yep, the Phillips certainly is a big box, but your advice has reassured the way I am thinking after reading through the detail in this thread. I had already compared specs. of the different types but was really no further forward until I read the info. above. I'll now compare CRTs and make my choice.

Cheers,

Trev.
 

stefan szoka

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I worked for twenty odd years in the t.v. / hi fi industry. I don't think that I could do it now, I don't like telling lies !
Plasma and LCD screens to my eye have refresh rates which are far too slow. Movement is blurred and jerky. Notice that shops displaying these sets are usually showing cartoons. This is because cartoons are far less demanding on movement.
Digital television broadcasts are slow enough as it is but the problem seems to be compounded further on plasma and l.c.d.
Even on terrestrial broadcasts I get annoyed at falling technical standards due to more programmes being recorded on digital format rather than the old analogue video tape. Movement on digital recordings is always jerky and blurred.
I have occasionally complained, over the years, to various sectors of the B.B.C. Apart from and aknowledgement, have never had a full reply.
To me, television and radio does not meet the technical broadcasting standards we had years ago ! I don't think that the B.B.C. or Independant broadcasters have any engineers left.
It's about time that Trading Standards investigated. They keep telling us that digital t.v. and radio is better quality to encourage us to change because the government wants to sell off more airspace. Well, I think we are being sold up the river!
I could accept it if they were honest and said - We have to go digital because the government wants to raise more money, but please accept that there is a reduction in quality of picture and sound.
That is honesty. What the broadcasters and government are doing, in my opinion is dishonest, and should be taken to task.

Listened to any of your old vinyl L.P.'s recently ? Analogue is still worth hanging on to.

Stefan
 

Midnight

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Screens that size always take me back to my childhood..... but i keep askin......where's the curtains..?? The lights would dim.....curtains would open....and a Worlitzer would apear from the stage c/w ancient bald headed organist churning out every corny tune under the sun.......... and then the main feature would start.... :roll:

them were the days...
 

kityuser

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I always remember an old uni prof of mine stating that the essence of nature is distortion.

light is naturally distorted all the time (refraction, partial refelection) so the real life images we see are always full of distortion.
Thus a crt tv looks more natural due to the distortion caused by various effects such as "fringe effects", I agree that plasma and LCD do look to "digital" (plasma to a lesser extent), but for overall viewing pleasure I`d go with crt any day.

The same can be said for LPs v CDs and for valves v transistors, alot of the time distortion in sound (caused by changing air pressures, wave front interaction, and ear effects) is described as "warmth", i.e. if you have ever heard a pure sine wave from a singal generator you would`nt describe it as "warm"

I suppose it all comes down to personal taste, I would have loved a massive crt but the space just was`nt there to facilitate it.

I would ignore everything that sales people say in shops like comet, they either lie or just don`t know.

steve
 

Vormulac

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Yeah Midnight, but it's not as much fun hurling half sucked wine gums at the screen when after the film the lights go up and suddenly you're back in the living room and you have to scrape 'em off the telly. :lol:

V.
 

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