PK200 Table Saw Accident

[Little Ern]

You might have a good point there Newt. I know for certain I hit the NVR off button when the saw stopped but although I thought I could remember switching off at the socket it's just possible I didn't. It would have had to have been an awful coincidence for the power to go through the switch just as I reached for the blade and then fail again but it's the best suggestion so far.

If it is a faulty NVR switch I guess it's reasonably easy to check if you've got the gear to do it. I might have a word in the 'local' tonight.

Cheers.

 

[Digit]

I have a SIP table saw, and from new the NVR was as reliable as a five bob watch!
The problem with safety equipment is that we tend to rely on it.
Such cost me a finger, I now blow out all electrical equipment regularly.
My router bench is fitted with an NVR and wired permanently via a fused spur, and I turn both off before bit changing.

Roy.

 

[Little Ern]

OK. Saw back from repairers (not fixed).
The diagnosis was that it required a new motor which would have cost £217 including VAT. I'm not going to pay that on a 6 year old saw so the hunt is on for a new one. Having read the thread highlighted by Gary M on Sunday I think a change of manufacturer is in order.
I have a mate who likes tinkering with broken equipment like this so I think I'll use the saw to offset the cost of some hardwood which he's got lined up for me.

Thanks again for all comments etc.

 

[beech1948]

Little Ern,

If you go to the Metabo web site you will be able to find the manual for the saw you have. Its a bit obsure but findable. They used to also put up parts lists but these seem to have disappeared for older EB stuff.

regards
alan

 

[Niki]

They have parts catalog please look here
http://fc.zindel.de/scripts/CUWP_CGI.EXE

Click on "Read" to download the PDF file

The electric diagram is also included if the file


Well, the link above is not working somehow....
Click on this link
http://fc.zindel.de/_metabo/_public/_en/_en02hoetl.html

Under the "Enter tool item number" type 0102001010 and click on the "Find"
niki

 

[catface]

hello little ern,
hope you've recovered ok.
Regarding the original accident, there is atleast one alternative to the elastic (tension remaining in the drive belt) and the electrical (discharge of start capacitor, or turning of motor due to magnetic condition) which is this :
you are ripping a narrow piece (say one eigth inch thick )from the side of a board (or sheet) (wood or mdf). The piece which is removed (the thin piece) can end up in all sorts of awkward places, such as bottom front edge wedged against far end of the sawblade hole in the sawblade insert (stopping the forward progress of the workpiece) ; sometimes on shorter boards the cut off piece can instead catch its front edge up inside the front of the bladeguard (I had a piece up here a while ago I couldnt work out where the smell of burning wood was coming from !). Another place the offcut can end up is going through the blade hole in the table insert directly next to the sawblade. Depending on the off cut's length and thickness, it can fall through and into the base of the saw ( and up the extractor pipe), remain in the base, jam between the side of the blade and the side of the blade hole, OR jam between the blade and the saw casing / blade mounding mechanism. I dont know the design of the saw you had the misfortune to have the accident with, but I've known other saws where such an offcut has become wedged between the arbour mounting bracets and the blade, in a bent condition. If you disturb this (ie knock the blade or the offcut to remove it ) the energy stored in the bent offcut can be enough to spin the blade. Perhaps this was the cause of the blade spinning after isolation from the power supply ?? I hope I haven't bored you silly , I only mention it because I've seen sprung offcuts cause blade spin on my own machines, & this knowledge might help others avoid a potential accident. Furthermore, when you go to look and work out why the blade spun, unless you saw the offcut jammed in there first, you wouldnt know why the blade had moved.
I always ask myself now, "whats happened to the bit Ive cut off" because, if I cant see it its ususally got itself wedged somewhere it oughtn't to be eg up in the guard.
REgards, Catface.

 

[Gary M]

Hi LE,
Sorry to hear about your accident, hope your mending.
Regards your saw, it is almost definitely the speed controller that is causing you problems. My PK 200 would have stopped dead halfway through a cut then a second or two later started again :shock: Very scarry !!
It may also have something to do with torque left in the motor after you switched it off.
You are making the right decision by replacing it !!
SIP are a great saw for the money :wink:


Oddsocks im afraid your saw is exhibiting the same problems
The speed controller is a part that should cost £30ish +vat, but Electra/Metabo wont sell it seperately.
New motor required unfortunately.
HTH
Gary.

 

[Anonymous]

Hope it heals quickly ern

 

[Little Ern]

Thanks again for all your comments.
I've found the on-line instructions so thanks for that but I'm afraid 'the beast' is going now. I reckon my mate will weld brackets etc and fit another motor so it will be put to good use eventually. He's very good with that sort of thing. I've been reading the recent comments about the SIP and it sounds very tempting. It seems as though the beastie with the 3 HP motor requires a 16 amp socket so that makes it more expensive.
I've no idea how much a 'spark' would charge for that?

The thumb has healed brilliantly. At the time the nurse said it was too wide to stitch but not big enough for a skin graft. Mother nature has repaired it far better than I expected so the whole incident is now in the 'lessons learnt' file.

All the best,

 

[Digit]

You can buy 16 amp plugs and sockets from any decent electrical supplier.

Roy.

 

[ned]

Sorry to hear of your accident but it does make you extra vigilant when you next enter the workshop. I suppose you still don't know exactly what happened apart from the pain you felt. On the subject of stored energy, its one of those things that you aren't aware of until its to late which makes it responsible for a lot nasty accidents in industry.

 

[Little Ern]

Digit,
I ran the ring main around the shop and a spark connected up to shop consumer unit.

Is it just a case of replacing an existing socket with the 16amp one provided that the circuit is up to it?

Cheers,

 

[Digit]

Yes mate. Alternatively a separate 2.5 mm cable and a 20 amp MCB for a dedicated line.

Roy.

 

[Little Ern]

Thanks for that Digit.

 

[Jake]

BS4343 sockets don't have a fuse - the protection is at the MCB. They shouldn't just be stuck on an existing ring.

They should be on a dedicated radial circuit - like Roy says, 20A (or better, 16A) MCB with 2.5mm2 wire.

 

[Digit]

A fused socket is not, unless the regs have changed again, a requirement.

Roy.

 

[Jake]

I should have said plug

And they have always been a requirement on a ring main.

 

[Digit]

There are rules Jake and common sense, at one time neutral fuses were used, a quick way to a fatal shock.
The rules say that copper pipework must be bonded to earth, a fatal idea if the RCD fails or, like my home, you use a copper earthing stake and the resistance builds up.
A dedicated line would in any case have as its protection the MCB, alternatively a spur with a 16/20 Amp MCB will give belt and braces and conforms.
Frankly, my workshop is wired with radial lines and dedicated outlets.

Roy.

PS My house was rewired from the service pole to the company fuse by the supply company and they have used a 2.5 mm bond to the stake! Despite my pointing out the regs, the sparks informed me that 'that was what they always used.'

 

[Jake]

That isn't a stupid rule, or a marginal case, Roy. The whole idea of ring circuits is framed around 13A fused outlets.

And you can't get around it by spurring off a ring main with more than 13A fused spur. It needs to be a dedicated line to the CU.

 

[Digit]

I'm aware of that Jake. So if a spur is used with with an MCB conformity is assured. I checked on the net.
But practically, my case stands. Remember that the 13 amp fused outlet was introduced prior to the RCD and a 13 amp fuse is to protect the machine, it does nothing for the operator as the full current would fry you! That is why the RCD was introduced!

Roy.