Philly's New Plane - with a difference...

[Anonymous]

So that makes it the equivelent of tracy Emein's bed, doesn't matter a toss whether its any good its a Jim Krenov.

Not quite, although I do think that it is a pity that such a great craftsman may be remembered by many who do not know his work in detail for his rustic tools rather than his quality carpentry, like his style or not, and I am not very smitten, there are relatively few people in the world today who can produce cabinet work to the standard of James Krenov.

I do not think that the Tracy Emein's or the like in our warped art world have or could ever produce such fine workmanship.

I, like Philly, would love to have in my possession a small article made by Mr Krenov, however basic in construction, just to show my respect of a great craftsman.

Send $250 and you can have one, its only a case of putting your money where your mouth is, or is that too much!

 

[MrJay]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean with your comparison. You seem to imply a lack of effort or production values, neither of which apply to Emin or Philly's new plane. You might not appreciate said values or the end result, but they are there.

Yes, the name is the most significant thing about the plane, I'm sure Philly could knock something vaguely similar together after a couple of tries. If nothing else a Krenov plane is a sound investment. Given that Krenov is a craftsman of legendary renown, not too far off dead and that there's some considerable scarcity involved I could imagine Philly's new plane doing very well at auction in 10-20 of years or so.

And of course there's no doubt a bit of hero worship. It's probably more akin to owning a football signed by Kevin Keegan than an art installation.

 

[MIGNAL]

There's no doubt that the plane that philly made or indeed the one that I made is finished to a much higher standard of craftsmanship. I also seriously doubt that anyone is going to pay that amount for either of these planes. The fact is your paying for the 'name' but that happens pretty much in many aspects of trade and commerce. Krenov probably deserves his success and there are countless numbers of people who also deserve some form of recognition and never receive it. It may not be 'fair' but that's the way the world is, you've just got to accept it.

 

[tiler99]

My thoughts is a waste of money but then its not my money.
It looks like something a kid in their 1st year of high school knocked up in the lunch break.
Krenovs eyesight may be failing but he sure saw you coming :lol:

Chill

 

[Mike.C]

Obeone,

So that makes it the equivelent of tracy Emein's bed, doesn't matter a toss whether its any good its a Jim Krenov.

Read Phillys post,

Philly,

But as I used it I realised how highly evolved this little plane is. The maker has obviously made a large amount of these over the years and it incorporates some very subtle but clever features.
It is very comfortable to hold and, as mentioned, you are not forced into a "standard" grip like, for instance, a Bailey style plane. The wedge needs minimal pressure to firmly hold the iron - almost finger pressure. And it cuts well. That is the basic purpose!

"It is comfortable to hold and works well". What bit of that do you not understand?
Surely if it does the job it was made for, and does it well, that is all that matters?
Now if you have and plane that works well and as Mr Jay says because of the man who made it could be worth something in the future, then I would say Philly is on to a winner.

MrJay
If nothing else a Krenov plane is a sound investment. Given that Krenov is a craftsman of legendary renown, not too far off dead and that there's some considerable scarcity involved I could imagine Philly's new plane doing very well at auction in 10-20 of years or so.

He has got a piece of work from a man he holds in high esteem and I for one think he is a lucky man.

Cheers

Mike

 

[DomValente]

Hmm, sfunny but I can appreciate it's worth and yes I too would like to own one.
But I wouldn't like a Tracey Emin, so I guess in my mind the two don't equate.

Dom

 

[MrJay]

It looks like...

No it doesn't. The asymmetric front and rounded rump ought to tell you that this is a tool that's evolved over time for using. That the plane is roughly finished where one holds it, but more accurately finished on the sole and bed ought to tell you that Krenov knows where to apply different production values for best effect. Not everything in wood needs to be the product of a planer/thicknesser. Frankly, I'm rather inspired.

 

[Anonymous]

It looks like...

No it doesn't. The asymmetric front and rounded rump ought to tell you that this is a tool that's evolved over time for using. That the plane is roughly finished where one holds it, but more accurately finished on the sole and bed ought to tell you that Krenov knows where to apply different production values for best effect. Not everything in wood needs to be the product of a planer/thicknesser. Frankly, I'm rather inspired.

OK i get it now, the next table I buy needs to be flat on the top, and the rest of it made with an axe then I will know it was made by a man who knows the production values for best effects.

 

[Mike.C]

Obeone just like the rest of us you have only seen the photo, but Philly has used the plane and in this instance knows best, so as I have said in my post above re-read Phillys post.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

I really do think those who are knocking James Krenov and the plane Philly bought, are missing the point. In years to come, I reckon woodworking historians will judge the period we are living in as one of the most exciting ever, both in terms of cabinet making and tool making. We, as woodworkers, are fortunate to be a part of all that. Philly is an enthusiast (in case you hadn't noticed ) and for an enthusiast to be able to buy something made by one of the leading influences in woodworking today is great. Whether the plane is any good as a plane doesn't matter. It's part of what's happening in woodworking now - that's what matters in my view.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MrJay]

Curse you Page 3.

It looks like...

No it doesn't. The asymmetric front and rounded rump ought to tell you that this is a tool that's evolved over time for using. That the plane is roughly finished where one holds it, but more accurately finished on the sole and bed ought to tell you that Krenov knows where to apply different production values for best effect. Not everything in wood needs to be the product of a planer/thicknesser. Frankly, I'm rather inspired.

OK i get it now, the next table I buy needs to be flat on the top, and the rest of it made with an axe then I will know it was made by a man who knows the production values for best effects.

You're suffering from a nasty case of association fallacy in your arguments. It's not a piece of production furniture (though I'm open to the idea of axe hewn furniture), it's a tool for use in a workshop. In some respects you may as well accuse Tom Lie-Nielson for not finishing the sides of his plane frogs in the same fashion as the polished working surfaces. However, that would still be missing half the point. The roughly finished surfaces of Philly's Krenov plane are the surfaces you use to hold the thing. I'd imagine the plane would work less well if the surfaces were smooth. That's what I mean by knowing when to use different production values for best effect.

For comparison; the steel working surfaces of my rather poncy secateurs are highly finished which makes them cut well, the same steel in the handles is left roughly finished which makes them nice to hold. It's simple, elegant and efficient.

 

[woodbloke]

FWIW the type of planes made by JK are quite easy to make. The big problem is finding a suitable cutter. I've used a parallel iron from a 50mm woodie which really too wide as by the time the side laminations are in place the total width becomes about 75mm or so which is too wide for a small plane.......however I've just come back from town after having visited my most favourite shop (those in the know will realize which one that is :wink with enough plane making materials to do a couple of Krenovian style planes and a couple of Derek of Oz style planes and enough to make a smaller shoulder plane and a bit more to do a modified Record No4 :lol:, so I'm going to be quite busy this summer :lol:

Paul - well said, agree entirely - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Curse you Page 3.

You're suffering from a nasty case of association fallacy in your arguments. It's not a piece of production furniture (though I'm open to the idea of axe hewn furniture), it's a tool for use in a workshop. In some respects you may as well accuse Tom Lie-Nielson for not finishing the sides of his plane frogs in the same fashion as the polished working surfaces. However, that would still be missing half the point. The roughly finished surfaces of Philly's Krenov plane are the surfaces you use to hold the thing. I'd imagine the plane would work less well if the surfaces were smooth. That's what I mean by knowing when to use different production values for best effect.

For comparison; the steel working surfaces of my rather poncy secateurs are highly finished which makes them cut well, the same steel in the handles is left roughly finished which makes them nice to hold. It's simple, elegant and efficient.

What a load of rubbish, people don't buy wooden handle chisels and rough them up on the bandsaw.
If you use the plane a lot your more likely to get blisters from rough surfaces. Although I suspect these chisels are more collectors items, rarely used, thats the real shame.

Use any arguements you want, this is a plane made by someone past their prime. I know this statement will upset people but answer honestly do you really know anyone who can do something better at 80 than they could at the age of 40,50, or 60.

 

[woodbloke]

Whilst not wishing to employ the sort of provocative language expressed previously, the following pic of a couple of JK's planes is taken from my hardback edition of 'The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking' published in 1977, thirty years ago, when JK was in his mid 50's and probably at his best (IMHO):

Obeone - if you look really, really closely at the pics and then compare with Philly's plane, you will see a close resemblance...or is just me ](*,) - Rob

 

[Philly]

Obe
As I said in my original post (yes, pages ago.... :lol: ) Jims eyesight is failing him. He has had to give up making cabinets - he is in his late eighties!!!
I certainly took that into consideration when buying the plane AND in my attitude towards it. Yes, it is rather coarse looking and it is probably not the finest plane Jim has made. But in all the important places the tool is spot on.
As a fan of Jims work and his books I was well aware of what the plane would look like - he evens walks you though making one in his book!
So your opinion is indeed a valid one and I am not upset at your comment on Jim being past his prime. You're right. I posted the pictures to share this plane with you - I expected there to be varying opinions (as has been demonstrated :lol: ). James Krenov is a craftsman whose work elicits this kind of response and this plane is a perfect example of this.
Now let's get back to the workshop and make something
Philly

 

[MrJay]

There are plenty of proficient people making their own chisels who prefer rough handles. Not sure where chisels came into it, but there you go.

Similarly my beetle is rough as you like, but it's that tool, not a shop bought mallet that I prefer; it's more 'pickupable'

Krenov may well be past his prime, but I wouldn't mind picking his brain about a few things, I reckon he still knows what he's doing.

 

[DomValente]

Obeone wrote

"Use any arguements you want, this is a plane made by someone past their prime. I know this statement will upset people but answer honestly do you really know anyone who can do something better at 80 than they could at the age of 40,50, or 60."

Er, use their experience to teach us how to make a practical working plane.

Use the force my son.

 

[Anonymous]

well I seem to have annoyed a few people.
Philly enjoy your purchase, your last post makes a lot of valid points.
By the way ](*,) this is offensive and putting stuff in bold implies i'm deaf, where as its jim K who's probably deaf.

 

[woodbloke]

Obeone wrote:

By the way this is offensive and putting stuff in bold implies i'm deaf, where as its jim K who's probably deaf.

Sorry, disagree.....when I want to be offensive you'll know all about it. Putting stuff in bold etc with a suitable emoticons serves to highlight and emphasize a point of view.

'Nuff said on this topic - Rob

 

[Paul Kierstead]

... where as its jim K who's probably deaf.

Is that sort of thing really called for? Actually, several of your statements about him are aggressive and rude.

Are you offended or something that he can get $250 for such a thing and you could not?