Painting Woodwork to Last Outdoors?

[paulrockliffe]

I've got some planters I've knocked together. They need to be painted some sort of colour as yet undecided by The Boss, they will obviously sit outside, so I'd like the paint to last.

I've not done this before, so would appreciate some advice on what to use to do a decent job that'll last as long as reasonably possible?

Thanks!

 

[ColeyS1]

My method would be two coats of aluminium primer.(A couple coats of preservative/wood treatment before if it's softwood) then undercoat, followed by a dulux exterior.


Coley

 

[cammy9r]

Valspar do a garden paint range with lots of colour choices. I have used ronseal garden shades too. I have used both on planters and found them nice to brush on. Last year I painted my soffits/facias on the house using Leyland trade oil based paint. Spent weeks prepping the surfaces but lots of it has flaked or cracked now and im in the process of doing it all again. This time however I am using Zinsser all coat over Zinsser cover stain which acts as a primer/surfacer and stain block. In the past I have used Bedec multi surface paint and found it horrible to work with.
If you are painting exterior wood then the paint needs to be flexible.

 

[gregmcateer]

I used cuprinol shades on the shed last year. Very easy to use. Nice range of colours, (I've been reliably told by Mrs Greg).
I can't speak for durability but looking good a year later
Greg

 

[RobinBHM]

One thing that makes a big difference is making sure all edges have a radius of 2m or so.Also V grooves at joints.

Paint cant makntain any film build on a sharp edge so thats a common cause of early failure. Joints often crack through movement and a tiny crack allows moisture to penetrate working its way up the end grain.

 

[Mike Jordan]

To make any external joinery last longer it's necessary to do what is called "painting together" this involves applying good quality paint to all the surfaces that cannot be painted when the assembly is completed. The easiest example to give would be a framed ledges and braced door, the frame is made first and then boarded with tongue and groove boards to complete the door. When painting together, the grooves, rebates,and tongues and grooves and backs of the boards are all primed before being added to the frame. The faces of the rails which are covered by the boarding are also painted before adding the boards. There is little point in painting the completed door and allowing water to lie between the frame and boards to soak in to both. This method was commonplace before the arrival of mass produced doors being imported and sold "in the white" unless you are able to totally immerse a ready made door it's impossible to treat the concealed faces. For this reason the doors don't last very well but they are not expensive.

 

[Rorschach]

I used Zinsser All coat exterior last year on wood, metal and masonry and I have been very pleased with the results so far. Has a few rust spots on the metal but I am putting that down to bad prep by me rather than the paint. Wood and masonry looks as fresh as the day they were painted.

 

[Dan j]

Normally avoid painting, but one of my customers is a big cuprinol garden shades fan.
Made some windows and a door for a summerhouse for her about 6 years ago. Its lasted pretty well on those and hasn't been repainted yet.

 

[Jacob]

There's only one paint worth attempting on outdoor stuff and that's linseed oil "Allback" brand. It's totally superior to all modern paints, is easy to apply and cheap. Expensive by the tin but huge covering power.
I speak from years of experience of failed modern paints and have been using nothing else but linseed paints for the last 8 years or so.
There are other brands too.

 

[ColeyS1]

Jacob, does it still need priming and undercoating ? I was telling my workmate about you always singing it's praises and suggested we ought to try some. I've got the brand you recommend now so only need to find a stockist.
Thanks

Coley

 

[Jacob]

To make any external joinery last longer it's necessary to do what is called "painting together" this involves applying good quality paint to all the surfaces that cannot be painted when the assembly is completed. The easiest example to give would be a framed ledges and braced door, the frame is made first and then boarded with tongue and groove boards to complete the door. When painting together, the grooves, rebates,and tongues and grooves and backs of the boards are all primed before being added to the frame. The faces of the rails which are covered by the boarding are also painted before adding the boards. There is little point in painting the completed door and allowing water to lie between the frame and boards to soak in to both. This method was commonplace before the arrival of mass produced doors being imported and sold "in the white" unless you are able to totally immerse a ready made door it's impossible to treat the concealed faces. For this reason the doors don't last very well but they are not expensive.

"Painting together" doesn't work with modern paints - water gets in and they lift off. But it does work extremely well with linseed oil paints. Bin there dunnit lotsa times.
NB you wouldn't paint the backs of window frames and sash cases etc - they are better left untouched. Just for things totally exposed both sides - doors, gates etc.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, does it still need priming and undercoating ? I was telling my workmate about you always singing it's praises and suggested we ought to try some. I've got the brand you recommend now so only need to find a stockist.
Thanks

Coley

Prime with raw linseed oil, warmed if possible. It seems to stick well over old (modern) paint too and stabilises it. No undercoat - though I see they recommend added zinc oxide on new work 1st coat after the oil.
NB its very different from modern paint and takes a bit of getting used to - e.g. you brush it out as thin as possible with stiffish fitch brushes - non of that careful laying on of a perfect coat.

 

[ColeyS1]

Thanks for the info.
Does it look like a ploughed field or can it look alright when finished . I thought id heard you mention before priming with shellac, but must have got confuddled.
I've got a shed door I've made out of Tricoya I could try it on but would rather try it on some real wood. That narrows it down to something outside made in softwood......

Coley

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for the info.
Does it look like a ploughed field or can it look alright when finished . I thought id heard you mention before priming with shellac, but must have got confuddled.
I've got a shed door I've made out of Tricoya I could try it on but would rather try it on some real wood. That narrows it down to something outside made in softwood......

Coley

Prime glazing rebates (and knots) with shellac.
It's not as shiny or brightly coloured as modern gloss - it tends to end up looking egg shell with slightly faded but trendy colours.
As I said it's very different from modern paints. Modern stays bright and shiny even as it flakes off the rotten woodwork beneath. Linseed looks dull and fades gently - but sticks like sh|t to a blanket. Instead of coming detached from behind it deteriorates from the surface and goes chalky. Easily revived with more oil (7 years on) and more paint later in the cycle. Never needs stripping back - well not in your lifetime anyway!

 

[paulrockliffe]

Thanks all, that's really useful! I went to B&Q this afternoon to see what they had, but didn't buy anything as they didn't have knotting solution, so I couldn't make a start.

 

[ColeyS1]

Thanks Jacob. Daft question but is shellac different to knotting ? I've always knotted knots and painted surfaces like tongues and grooves that can't be got to before. Knottings always seemed a little syrupy.

Apologies for steering the thread a little off course.

Coley

 

[Jacob]

Thanks Jacob. Daft question but is shellac different to knotting ? I've always knotted knots and painted surfaces like tongues and grooves that can't be got to before. Knottings always seemed a little syrupy.

Apologies for steering the thread a little off course.

Coley

Same stuff but different quality I suppose, from best french polish to worst knotting solution. Dunno really.

 

[Rorschach]

I think knotting is just rough shellac, no need to really refine it much for that job so it can be made cheaply and is also a very heavy cut.

 

[Sir Percy]

There's only one paint worth attempting on outdoor stuff and that's linseed oil "Allback" brand. It's totally superior to all modern paints, is easy to apply and cheap. Expensive by the tin but huge covering power.
I speak from years of experience of failed modern paints and have been using nothing else but linseed paints for the last 8 years or so.
There are other brands too.

Hi Jacob, is it susceptible to mildew? Is it worth using their zinc oxide additive, do you think?

Thanks,
Gavin

 

[Jacob]

There's only one paint worth attempting on outdoor stuff and that's linseed oil "Allback" brand. It's totally superior to all modern paints, is easy to apply and cheap. Expensive by the tin but huge covering power.
I speak from years of experience of failed modern paints and have been using nothing else but linseed paints for the last 8 years or so.
There are other brands too.

Hi Jacob, is it susceptible to mildew? Is it worth using their zinc oxide additive, do you think?

Thanks,
Gavin

You get a surface mildewish dust if you don't clean them often, but it washes off. I presume it is mildew and not just dust. I don't know how effective the zinc is as I haven't tried it. Maybe I should have done!
NB this paint is not as shiny and self cleaning as modern gloss, but it does stay firmly stuck on, which is the important thing!