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markturner":3gao7j60 said:
Well, you are just winding yourself up arn't you.......dont look then.......

I know, I know. I shouldn't do it to myself. Saw some paring spruces with back handles sell recently toooo ;)

One day hey

TT
 
Hello,

Ashley Iles BE chisels work just as well, I suspect, they are very well ground and the steel is good. Get some unhandled ones and make some fancy wood ones and get a great set of chiels for a fraction of the cost.

Mike.
 
I want them allllllllllll!!!!! :)

Tho I saw David Barron grind the the edges of some japanes chisels for dovetailing?

I'll make do with what I got but one day I'll have a set of BS chisels :)

TT
 
tobytools":qpasukq7 said:
I want them allllllllllll!!!!! :)


I'll make do with what I got but one day I'll have a set of BS chisels :)

TT

Hello,

Be careful what you wish for! BS chisels are A2 steel aren't they.....true craftsmen want HC steel. (hammer)

Mike.
 
woodbrains":36iupoib said:
tobytools":36iupoib said:
I want them allllllllllll!!!!! :)


I'll make do with what I got but one day I'll have a set of BS chisels :)

TT

Hello,

Be careful what you wish for! BS chisels are A2 steel aren't they.....true craftsmen want HC steel. (hammer)

Mike.

A2, O1, D2, manganese steel, i don't really know the diffrence tbh and it's not a bad thing, through my lack of knowlage I don't overthink tool steels.

Through out all my tools I probably have a few if each.

Don't want to start a riot but what wrong with A2 in your OPINION.

Maby some one can start a new thread in the variety of steels and ye pros and cons of each for those who haven't a clue about such things. Or maby a link to something similar, tho I don't want diagrams of atoms and partials with complicated names lol
Thanks
TT
 
tobytools":dc3n7x1j said:
....

Maby some one can start a new thread in the variety of steels and ye pros and cons of each for those who haven't a clue about such things. Or maby a link to something similar, tho I don't want diagrams of atoms and partials with complicated names lol
Thanks
TT

I did that here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... pared.html

The chisels used were the Veritas PM-V11, vintage (not the new versions) Stanley #750 (which is a HCS similar to O1, but I am unsure of the specific type), Koyamaichi white steel, and Blue Spruce A2.

The bottom line, for those uninterested in reading the tests conducted ....

"The (Veritas) PM-V11 and the (Koyamaichi) White Steel really do deliver. The (durability/edge holding) gap between them and the (Blue Spruce) A2 and (Stanley) O1/HCS is very large. There is no appreciable extra effort to hone the steels when used with modern waterstones, such as Shaptons (used here) or Sigmas.

It must be emphasised that this review was about the steel, not the chisels. What do I mean by that? A chisel is not simply a lump of steel with a handle. Edge-holding is sometimes less important than balance and control and comfort when in use. The Stanley here is one of my favourite users as I customised the handles for myself. The Blue Spruce is one of the nicest chisels around, with arguably the best handles made on this planet. The Veritas handles are really excellent as well, and the balance in use is surprisingly good, and they are lighter than they look, but not as light as the BS. The Koyamaichi are designed to be hit with a gennou rather than pushed, but do so OK. All good chisels. It is only when one works mongrel wood that good steel becomes a dominating factor".

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
tobytools":o3iyjuyb said:
woodbrains":o3iyjuyb said:
tobytools":o3iyjuyb said:
I want them allllllllllll!!!!! :)


I'll make do with what I got but one day I'll have a set of BS chisels :)

TT

Hello,

Be careful what you wish for! BS chisels are A2 steel aren't they.....true craftsmen want HC steel. (hammer)

Mike.

A2, O1, D2, manganese steel, i don't really know the diffrence tbh and it's not a bad thing, through my lack of knowlage I don't overthink tool steels.

Through out all my tools I probably have a few if each.

Don't want to start a riot but what wrong with A2 in your OPINION.

Maby some one can start a new thread in the variety of steels and ye pros and cons of each for those who haven't a clue about such things. Or maby a link to something similar, tho I don't want diagrams of atoms and partials with complicated names lol
Thanks
TT

Here are a few links for you. It's not all that terribly mysterious. A2 is as common as dirt as of course is O1. A2 has a little better 'wear resistance' according to these links which may mean more for plane irons than it does for chisels. It seems to stay sharper a little longer but a lot of people don't think it gets as sharp in the first place as O1. Based on my experience with a Lie-Nielsen scrub plane in A2 I wholeheartedly agree and it was honed on SiC sandpaper. Stuff just does not get as sharp but for a scrubber that might not really matter.

http://www.hudsontoolsteel.com/?gclid=C ... 7AodFEQAUA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_steel

http://www.alro.com/datacatalog/tooldie ... ndbook.pdf

http://www.westyorkssteel.com/tool-steel/
 
:? So, Toby - you don't know one tool steel from another but you're dreaming of spending £40 - £50 or more a throw on chisels because they are pretty? The high end manufacturers must love people like you!
 
Pricing and marketing is an odd thing; something of good quality at a low price and some people turn their noses up, but the same thing at an inflated price and some will want it even if it's too much money for them. It seems sometimes the more expensive something is, the more people will want it. To use jargon, they will "aspire" to own it. They will save up especially to own it. Or the company will have periodic "sales" (eg news of which are sent by email to registered customers) and the punters will snap up the thing and believe they've got a bargain.
 
Toby we are perhaps lucky to have so much choice in steel. Derek's comparisson is very good but as he rightly says it's only about edge retention.

Many other factors come into play. We must also be wary but at the same time opened minded about the new miracle steel that supplier X has developed.

From my position I can't justify spending £40ish a chisel (each to their own) or "upgrading" my sharpening medium for another £100 or more to get an edge that lasts a little longer.

As a for instance the AI Mk 2 you just bought from me . I can confirm WB thoughts on them, they are fantastic. And let's be honest sharpening should be fast and fuss free however you go about getting there. So therefore if and edge fails a little quicker it's maybe seconds before it's wicked sharp again. And as you confirmed my chisel was sharp :). Therefore for me the more expenive steels are not worth my investment as edge tools are not just about edge retention.

But that is only an opinion and a preference :).
 
phil.p":eka9jok0 said:
:? So, Toby - you don't know one tool steel from another but you're dreaming of spending £40 - £50 or more a throw on chisels because they are pretty? The high end manufacturers must love people like you!

Ok, when I said I don't know one from the other that was a bit miss leading I know enough to get by and what's what in regards to my own experiences, tho I didn't find much diffrence. Maby its because I've not been doing this as long as some, nor sit and read copious amounts of books on such subjects.

Thanks Derek for the link and also thanks cstanford.

The suppliers should love me as I keep their pockets lined and in turn I love them for supplieing me with the amount of choices available to me.

HAYDON, the chisel was just what the doctor ordered :)


Now to read about steels :(
Thanks
TT
 
Hello,

I was just having a bit of fun with my steel banter, really. I don't own any A2 chisels, but know more people who dislike them tan not, but that's their opinion, I suppose.

I do have some A2 plane irons, and like Hock ones best, though Veritas works too. Not sure if abrasion resistance is too important with chisels as with planes though.

It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but America does not do a lot of forgings of the type that make tools. Forging does add some character to the steel, take Clifton plane irons for example, forged and hammered to make superb tool steel. Even a few blows from a drop hammer (AI chisels) gives the steel some grain structure than a flat bar does not have. Now most US chisels we see are CNC machined from bar stock, so IMHO the exotic steels are as much a substitute for the lack of forge hammering as anything else. I have no problem with modern steels and metallurgists trying to give steel certain properties in various ways. It is all part of the fun and after all, all the good makes of tool work, and I am happy using them all. I do think the BS are lovely to look at and I'm sure nice to own, just as an old cast steel chisel with a user made replacement handle will do just as well (better?) and look as nice as the new owner wants to make it.

I have been toying with the idea of buying some AI chisels without handles and doing my own. To make a personal set over time. There is no rush, I have plenty of chisels, I just like an excuse to own more and make a ahem, vanity set! This thread has prompted me to do so.

Mike.
 
woodbrains":39vfokcq said:
Hello,

I was just having a bit of fun with my steel banter, really. I don't own any A2 chisels, but know more people who dislike them tan not, but that's their opinion, I suppose.

I do have some A2 plane irons, and like Hock ones best, though Veritas works too. Not sure if abrasion resistance is too important with chisels as with planes though.

It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but America does not do a lot of forgings of the type that make tools. Forging does add some character to the steel, take Clifton plane irons for example, forged and hammered to make superb tool steel. Even a few blows from a drop hammer (AI chisels) gives the steel some grain structure than a flat bar does not have. Now most US chisels we see are CNC machined from bar stock, so IMHO the exotic steels are as much a substitute for the lack of forge hammering as anything else. I have no problem with modern steels and metallurgists trying to give steel certain properties in various ways. It is all part of the fun and after all, all the good makes of tool work, and I am happy using them all. I do think the BS are lovely to look at and I'm sure nice to own, just as an old cast steel chisel with a user made replacement handle will do just as well (better?) and look as nice as the new owner wants to make it.

I have been toying with the idea of buying some AI chisels without handles and doing my own. To make a personal set over time. There is no rush, I have plenty of chisels, I just like an excuse to own more and make a ahem, vanity set! This thread has prompted me to do so.

Mike.

:)
Do it, we all love a vanity set.
And that would me for a good wip, pressure on ;)

I did a custom job on some vintage chisels that I'm sure most have see already but in case not
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e10a7u9zyhqiy ... .34.29.jpg

"If I had the money" snake wood
TT
 
Hello,

I 'll order some AI's tomorrow! I've in mind to do what I'm going to call 'Liverpool pattern' handles, just to whet your appetite. :wink:

I have a bit of Santos Rosewood knocking around somewhere.....

Mike.
 
woodbrains":3bijkldm said:
Hello,

I was just having a bit of fun with my steel banter, really. I don't own any A2 chisels, but know more people who dislike them tan not, but that's their opinion, I suppose.

I do have some A2 plane irons, and like Hock ones best, though Veritas works too. Not sure if abrasion resistance is too important with chisels as with planes though.

It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but America does not do a lot of forgings of the type that make tools. Forging does add some character to the steel, take Clifton plane irons for example, forged and hammered to make superb tool steel. Even a few blows from a drop hammer (AI chisels) gives the steel some grain structure than a flat bar does not have. Now most US chisels we see are CNC machined from bar stock, so IMHO the exotic steels are as much a substitute for the lack of forge hammering as anything else. I have no problem with modern steels and metallurgists trying to give steel certain properties in various ways. It is all part of the fun and after all, all the good makes of tool work, and I am happy using them all. I do think the BS are lovely to look at and I'm sure nice to own, just as an old cast steel chisel with a user made replacement handle will do just as well (better?) and look as nice as the new owner wants to make it.

I have been toying with the idea of buying some AI chisels without handles and doing my own. To make a personal set over time. There is no rush, I have plenty of chisels, I just like an excuse to own more and make a ahem, vanity set! This thread has prompted me to do so.

Mike.

I don't think A2 is a match for good Sheffield steel in its heyday. Not even close, really. I have an old wooden Marples jack plane and the iron is harder than Chinese arithmetic but it never chips, it gets dull slowly and extraordinarily gracefully, not all in a fell swoop.

Any of these comparisons and 'reviews' that don't take into account an example or two of fine vintage Western steel really miss the mark in my opinion.
 
woodbrains":x8vzujbu said:
Hello,

I 'll order some AI's tomorrow! I've in mind to do what I'm going to call 'Liverpool pattern' handles, just to whet your appetite. :wink:

I have a bit of Santos Rosewood knocking around somewhere.....

Mike.

I await greedily for the photos of this unknown (to me) pattern.
Tho I fear you will set me off ;)

Thanks
TT
 
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