Oak Flooring - So much conflicting information!

[Steel City Man]

Sorry, have to rant. We're currently researching flooring options for our open plan kitchen dining room, and I have to say, after speaking to several specialist flooring places, I am completely gobsmacked by the amount of conflicting advice I've been given!

Once the wall is down and RSJ in, we've got an 8m by 4.5m room, half is existing timber floorboards, half is concrete (no DPM).

One place was pushing engineered boards (floating), due to the additional moisture present in the kitchen area (cooking, splashes etc). They say we could have solid oak, but not floated, would have to be nailed/glued with an epoxy DPM over the concrete first. 'Never float a solid floor' apparently.

Next place said we could float solid oak, but within certain criteria; between 120 and 150mm width and less than 6m room width (otherwise additional expansion needed within the middle of the floor). Wider boards = more chance of cupping.

Next place says that's all rubbish, they've been fitting solid oak floors for a billion years, always float them and would be happy doing this with 400mm boards. They hate engineered boards with a passion, as they have no character - they insist it's due to the way the laminate is cut, apparently takes out certain 'dimensional character' out of the wood :? . Ironically, they supply solid oak boards to the first place we visited, yet give polar opposite advice - to them, the idea of nailing/gluing each board sounds ludicrous.

I'm not saying any of the advice is wrong, it seems each place is very confident of their own chosen methods. However, with 35 square metres to buy and lay down, I'm not interested in taking too much of a risk that the floor with develop problems 6 months down the line and need to be trashed. Of course, none of the places I've visited are willing to offer a money back guarantee should all go pear shaped!

My wife really wants solid oak, she's not convinced we can get engineered with enough character (budget up to £60/m2). I'm yearning for the safer bet of engineered, and I'm convinced we can find a decent engineered board somewhere! Either way, I'd prefer to float, with a DPM backed insulation over the concrete area, non-DPB insulation over the timber

Anyone have an further opinions on this? Probably make matters worse of course!

 

[Triggaaar]

One place was pushing engineered boards (floating), due to the additional moisture present in the kitchen area (cooking, splashes etc). They say we could have solid oak, but not floated, would have to be nailed/glued with an epoxy DPM over the concrete first. 'Never float a solid floor' apparently.

I agree.

Next place said we could float solid oak, but within certain criteria; between 120 and 150mm width and less than 6m room width (otherwise additional expansion needed within the middle of the floor). Wider boards = more chance of cupping.

So he's saying you should run the boards down the length of the room, which might not be your design choice in a room 8m x 4.5m, as that will make it look longer and thinner. And even if you do follow that advice, it is still a risk.

Next place says that's all rubbish, they've been fitting solid oak floors for a billion years, always float them and would be happy doing this with 400mm boards. They hate engineered boards with a passion, as they have no character - they insist it's due to the way the laminate is cut, apparently takes out certain 'dimensional character' out of the wood :? . Ironically, they supply solid oak boards to the first place we visited, yet give polar opposite advice - to them, the idea of nailing/gluing each board sounds ludicrous.

If you (or he) were shown a solid board and an engineered board next to each other, could you tell the difference? I can't. Depth, character, blah blah blah, he wants to make a sale. If he guarantees it, and the guarantee is strong enough that you could rely on it, fine. But he doesn't, he just wants to make a sale.

My wife really wants solid oak, she's not convinced we can get engineered with enough character (budget up to £60/m2). I'm yearning for the safer bet of engineered, and I'm convinced we can find a decent engineered board somewhere! Either way, I'd prefer to float, with a DPM backed insulation over the concrete area, non-DPB insulation over the timber

Anyone have an further opinions on this? Probably make matters worse of course!

I've laid two solid oak floors in large areas. The first came up with attitude, the second lasted longer but eventually expanded and came up. Experts came to look and explained that large areas couldn't be floated without expansion gaps. I can hardly disagree. A friend recently had a floating solid oak floor laid, and it too shows signs of expanding. Needless to say, the last floor I laid was an engineered oak, and I went for a cheap one (only a few mm of oak), less than £25 a metre. It's no trouble at all.

If you have a bigger budget for some really nice flooring, get some samples, hide the edges, and show your wife to see if she can tell the difference.

 

[RogerS]

Suggest you might like to take a look at these three videos. British Hardwoods have an excellent reputation. No commercial connection - just a satisfied customer.

http://www.britishhardwoods.co.uk/fitting_videos.php

 

[Steel City Man]

That British Hardwoods site has a lot of good info, thanks.

Just got back from the original flooring place we went to and have found a very nice engineered oak floor; 190mm wide (bevelled), 2m long, 22mm thick with 6mm oak top - it's a real beast! It also looks lovely, you'd never tell it was engineered, proper rustic with subtle treatex oiled finish. £55/m2 so within budget, looks like we'll go for it.

Still, the fixing issue is unresolved. I mentioned I wanted to float, the guy begrudgingly says that's okay, but if they were installing it, they would still nail, even with engineered. Obviously can't nail the concrete (unless we put down some ply or OSB), so that would be glued. Doesn't that seem like overkill for an engineered board? Isn't one of the advantages being that they can be floated?

Triggaaar; regarding plank direction - looking at the room (well imagining, as the wall is still there!), it looks like running along the longest length will look best visually - it also means that at the doorway to the hallway, the existing varnished hall floor will run perpendicular to the new boards, which I think would look much better. Although many say go 'with the light', which would be along the 4.5m length. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Triggaaar]

Just to be clear, I'm offering advice from my personaly experience, I'm not a pro.

Just got back from the original flooring place we went to and have found a very nice engineered oak floor; 190mm wide (bevelled), 2m long, 22mm thick with 6mm oak top - it's a real beast! It also looks lovely, you'd never tell it was engineered, proper rustic with subtle treatex oiled finish. £55/m2 so within budget, looks like we'll go for it.

That's my feeling on it, can't tell the difference if it's a good one.

Still, the fixing issue is unresolved. I mentioned I wanted to float, the guy begrudgingly says that's okay, but if they were installing it, they would still nail, even with engineered. Obviously can't nail the concrete (unless we put down some ply or OSB), so that would be glued. Doesn't that seem like overkill for an engineered board? Isn't one of the advantages being that they can be floated?

My engineered floor is floated on chip flooring, but my build will have started from a different point than yours (my chipboard is floating too, on top of floating kingspan). I imagine you'll get a better finish if it's fixed, glued like in the video you looked at, as it removes the possibility of it bouncing a little, but if you're paying £55 a metre you really want to be confident and have good reason not to follow the advice of the supplier.

Triggaaar; regarding plank direction - looking at the room (well imagining, as the wall is still there!), it looks like running along the longest length will look best visually - it also means that at the doorway to the hallway, the existing varnished hall floor will run perpendicular to the new boards, which I think would look much better. Although many say go 'with the light', which would be along the 4.5m length. What are your thoughts on this?

I was really getting at the fact that one way will probably look better than the other, and if you were going for solid flooring you'd have little choice (IMO) as you'd have to minimise the chance of the floor lifting. With an engineered floor, I don't think you'll have a problem either way. When boards do expand and lift, they expand across their width, so you'd lay the lengths along the length of the room. Sounds like that's how you'd like it anyway, but like I say, with engineered, just go for what you think looks best. 4.5m isn't a thin room, but laying along the length will certainly accentuate the length. But as you've said there are other visual factors to consider, so just go with what you think looks nice.

 

[RogerS]

I can easily tell the difference between an engineered board and real oak....the biggest giveaway is that engineered boards generally are all the same length and width....a real oak floor will have different lengths and widths and won't look 'plasticky'....just my opinion.

 

[Triggaaar]

I can easily tell the difference between an engineered board and real oak....the biggest giveaway is that engineered boards generally are all the same length and width....a real oak floor will have different lengths and widths and won't look 'plasticky'....just my opinion.

Engineered boards can come in defferent lengths. Solid comes all in one width, I'm not sure what you mean there - how would you fit it if each peice was a different width? And plasticky - perhaps you haven't seen decent engineered oak flooring. Maybe you've only seen laminated oak, because the stuff I'm talking about is oak - real oak, and nothing but oak, on the surface, which you can oil as you like. The only difference would be if you had solid oak with deep imperfections that couldn't exist in 6mm of engineered oak.

 

[RogerS]

I'm not talking thickness but width across the board....4" wide up to 8" or more.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not talking thickness but width across the board....4" wide up to 8" or more.

That's what I thought you meant. Most solid oak floors will be the same width for the entire floor - for example, you order 7" boards, so the whole floor will be made up of 7" boards - like the video you posted. So from that point of view, it'll look the same as an engineered floor.

 

[RogerS]

I agree..that's OK for a modern house but in a period property, they often never were all the same width hence the need for different widths if you're replacing or laying a new floor in an older property,

 

[Steel City Man]

For plasticky engineered floors, the Wickes £17 m2 stuff fits the bill, but I think that's mainly due to the 20 layers of horrible yellow lacquer they add to it. The engineered boards I viewed today were stunning, after all, it is a solid 6mm piece of quality oak sitting on the top, so once installed, that's all you see. Some were unfinished, some smoked, and the one I am looking at is oiled, very natural looking.

 

[Triggaaar]

For plasticky engineered floors, the Wickes £17 m2 stuff fits the bill, but I think that's mainly due to the 20 layers of horrible yellow lacquer they add to it.

Are you sure that's engineered oak, and not oak effect?

 

[Steel City Man]

Are you sure that's engineered oak, and not oak effect?

Definitely engineered oak, or 'Real Wood Layer' as Wickes call it. Just looks over-lacquered, not very nice at all!

Just found a Factory Direct place offering the same boards we looked at today for £23/m2 less

 

[jameslee30]

In the past couple of years iv laid oak flooring in 2 big rooms. One was solid (rustic) and the other was engineered (rustic). Both on concrete floors with a 3mm underlay between. I have to say, You cant see much difference visually. but the engineered was so so much easier to fit and should not move nearly as much. Both floors are floating. Even if you go for solid and glue and nail it. if the timber wants to cup, it will. We also found in the room with the solid floor that it quickly gained a bump in the room when it was quite damp ( due to having to remove the guttering and so the walls getting very wet). The flooring came from gregorys timber near matlock, cant remember the price but i think it was fairly reasonable. Great place to go as well, watching them cutting up a tree is interesting watching!

J