no 5 1/2 plane clogging really easily

[morfa]

I've just got a no 5 1/2 plane as a 'second' plane to go with my no 4. It seems to clog really quickly, compared to my no 4 which rarely does. Basically after a couple of strokes, the gap by the blade gets filled up with small fragments of wood, which get stuck on top of the chipbreaker and just fill up the whole gap (no idea what that gap is called sorry) and then the plane won't cut.

So I have to remove the blade and push the wood out. Then it cuts wonderfully. But again it clogs really quickly. I can't believe that it's normal practice to have to do that for planes? I certainly don't need to do it on my no 4.

Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong? Or does something need fettling? Its a Stanley no 5 1/2, I got it from Ray Iles (one of his reground ones).

Can provide a photo if that helps?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The frog might need moving back slightly, or the back iron might not be seating on the iron properly. If you are used to using a very small mouth, it's worth filing the edge of the casting so that the edge is angled from the mouth towards the front of the plane, being careful not to enlarge the mouth. This gives the shavings a little more room to clear.

 

[Peter T]

I can't claim to be any sort of expert in these matters, but from my limitted experience it sounds like the mouth, the gap by the blade, is set too small for the thickness of cut you are trying to take, and/or the chipbreaker is set too close to cutting edge of the blade.

First thing I would do would be to reduce the thickness of the cut until the clogging stops.

If the clogging stops with finer cuts, but you want to take heavier cuts, you will need to open the mouth and/or move the chipbreaker back from the cutting edge.

If you still get clogging even with the finest cuts, the mouth may be set so fine that it's never going to work and, again, you will need to open the mouth.

Good luck,

 

[G S Haydon]

Hi Morfa,

I experienced this when I fitted a thicker aftermarket plane iron. The mouth became too small and would clog on heavier cuts. As the others have mentioned if the frog can be moved backward do so. If that still does not sort the problem the mouth may need adjustment. The following site has good images on how to do this and if you choose to fine tune your plane further there is a copy of David Charlesworth's methods on the site. http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes ... tuneup.htm

 

[Jacob]

You want to set the frog back until it is dead in line with the back of the mouth. Line it up by squinting through from both sides. Forget about closing the mouth for finer cut - this is a bit mythical and is pointless.
Make sure the cap iron sits tight on the blade just 1 to 2mm behind the edge.
Shape (and polish) the top of the cap iron edge to make it a smooth curve so shavings can slide up and over.
Make sure the blade sits tight - squint through side to side (against the light) to see that it's tight on the frog.
Sharpen it.
As you plane, lift at the end of each stoke - if you just slide it back, shavings can get pulled back through, and jam in on the next forwards stroke

 

[G S Haydon]

Great advice Jacob,

Morfa find out for yourself before you take this part of Jacobs post as gospel "Forget about closing the mouth for finer cut - this is a bit mythical and is pointless."

 

[Mike.S]

Make sure the cap iron sits tight on the blade just 1 to 2mm behind the edge.
Shape (and polish) the top of the cap iron edge to make it a smooth curve so shavings can slide up and over.

+1

I had a similar problem and found that there was a very slight 'flat' on the leading edge of the cap iron (where it meets the iron near the cutting edge). Shavings hit this and rather than sliding up and over became compressed - quickly clogging the mouth.

 

[morfa]

Looks like it's a mix of frog and technique then. When planing I don't lift the plane up, just slide it back. However the frog does protrude slightly, by about 1 mm, I'll move it back and test.

 

[Racers]

I never lift and never have problems.
The curvature of the cap iron can cause problems,but can be fixed with an after market cap iron, and they improve the performance as well.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

I never lift and never have problems....

Pete

You probably don't do a lot of planing then.
It's fine shavings the worst - they can slip back out as you slide back, just enough to be in the way when you go forwards again.
Also it's just a bit lazy sliding it back as you are also wearing out the blade.
It's not a rule, but sometimes you have to lift between strokes

 

[Phil Pascoe]

:idea: Surely if you don't lift, you are just stropping your iron on wood?

 

[Jacob]

:idea: Surely if you don't lift, you are just stropping your iron on wood?

I suppose so, but you are stropping with zero relief angle. It's more the shavings getting caught up which is the issue. Doesn't always happen but can be a nuisance.

 

[Racers]

I never lift and never have problems....

Pete

You probably don't do a lot of planing then.
It's fine shavings the worst - they can slip back out as you slide back, just enough to be in the way when you go forwards again.
Also it's just a bit lazy sliding it back as you are also wearing out the blade.
It's not a rule, but sometimes you have to lift between strokes

I do a lot, if you plane past the end of the board of lift at end of the stroke the shaving is no longer attached to the board and can't get pulled back.


Pete

 

[Jacob]

I never lift and never have problems....

Pete

You probably don't do a lot of planing then.
It's fine shavings the worst - they can slip back out as you slide back, just enough to be in the way when you go forwards again.
Also it's just a bit lazy sliding it back as you are also wearing out the blade.
It's not a rule, but sometimes you have to lift between strokes

I do a lot, if you plane past the end of the board of lift at end of the stroke the shaving is no longer attached to the board and can't get pulled back.


Pete

It can if it's still trailing through the mouth. This isn't theoretical - it's what happens!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Morfa - it might be worth checking the fit of the cap-iron to the blade. I've had trouble with this one in the past - a very slight gap somewhere along the length of the line where the two touch is enough for a fine shaving to get under the capiron and jam. It's easy to check for; take the iron and capiron out of the plane, still fixed together as they should be for normal use, and hold up to the light. Peer into the gap between blade and cap-iron, and look at the back edge of the contact between the two near the cutting edge. You should see no light at all between the two. If you do, that'll be where the shaving is jamming. It can be corrected by careful filing of the cap-iron with a very fine file, but a better 'fix' is to put the edge of the capiron on a sharpening stone, near the edge, with the tail-end pointing a little below the stone's surface, and whet until the cap-iron fits the cutting iron tightly right at the cap-iron's tip. This doesn't usually take too long, since the cap-iron is rarely made of hard steel.

 

[bugbear]

Morfa - it might be worth checking the fit of the cap-iron to the blade. I've had trouble with this one in the past - a very slight gap somewhere along the length of the line where the two touch is enough for a fine shaving to get under the capiron and jam. It's easy to check for; take the iron and capiron out of the plane, still fixed together as they should be for normal use, and hold up to the light. Peer into the gap between blade and cap-iron, and look at the back edge of the contact between the two near the cutting edge. You should see no light at all between the two. If you do, that'll be where the shaving is jamming. It can be corrected by careful filing of the cap-iron with a very fine file, but a better 'fix' is to put the edge of the capiron on a sharpening stone, near the edge, with the tail-end pointing a little below the stone's surface, and whet until the cap-iron fits the cutting iron tightly right at the cap-iron's tip. This doesn't usually take too long, since the cap-iron is rarely made of hard steel.

I've posted on this before;

post628272.html?hilit=%20clogged%20bits%20#p628272

There's a helpful diagram in that post.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Morfa - it might be worth checking the fit of the cap-iron to the blade. I've had trouble with this one in the past - a very slight gap somewhere along the length of the line where the two touch is enough for a fine shaving to get under the capiron and jam. It's easy to check for; take the iron and capiron out of the plane, still fixed together as they should be for normal use, and hold up to the light. Peer into the gap between blade and cap-iron, and look at the back edge of the contact between the two near the cutting edge. You should see no light at all between the two. If you do, that'll be where the shaving is jamming. It can be corrected by careful filing of the cap-iron with a very fine file, but a better 'fix' is to put the edge of the capiron on a sharpening stone, near the edge, with the tail-end pointing a little below the stone's surface, and whet until the cap-iron fits the cutting iron tightly right at the cap-iron's tip. This doesn't usually take too long, since the cap-iron is rarely made of hard steel.

I've posted on this before;

post628272.html?hilit=%20clogged%20bits%20#p628272

There's a helpful diagram in that post.




BugBear

That's it exactly, BB! The diagrams help a lot, too.

 

[woodbrains]

You want to set the frog back until it is dead in line with the back of the mouth. Line it up by squinting through from both sides. Forget about closing the mouth for finer cut - this is a bit mythical and is pointless.
Make sure the cap iron sits tight on the blade just 1 to 2mm behind the edge.
Shape (and polish) the top of the cap iron edge to make it a smooth curve so shavings can slide up and over.
Make sure the blade sits tight - squint through side to side (against the light) to see that it's tight on the frog.
Sharpen it.
As you plane, lift at the end of each stoke - if you just slide it back, shavings can get pulled back through, and jam in on the next forwards stroke

Hello,

There is nothing mythical about a finely set plane mouth, the pressure exerted by the front of the sole helps hold down the shaving and prevents tear out. This is not greatly important if you are using the jack plane for rough work, but then again, you don't want to cause more tear out than necessary, as you will just have to work harder with the smoother later.

The plane was not designed to have the frog only set level with the rear of the mouth. Firstly, it is adjustable for a reason, i,e. to close the mouth to prevent tear out. Secondly, the thickness of the plane base is reduced just in front of the frog, allow the frog to be as close to the end of the blade as possible. If the plane was designed to have the frog level with the back of the mouth, it would just be left thick and negate the extra machining process in manufacture.

Dragging the plane backwards over the work can possibly dull the blade by increasing the wear bevel, though I have not tested this. Since doing so can sometimes drag a shaving back into the mouth, there is little need in testing the theory, it is best to avoid doing it. Ask a metal worker about dragging a file back over the work, he will tell you it dulls the file quicker.

 

[David C]

Most choking is caused by badly shaped chipbreakers.

The front edge is a precision shape. It must touch the back of the blade , and a littlee clearance is useful here .

The front of the top surface must not exceed 45 degrees to the back of blade. Polish is useful. Filing or honing is often needed. When prepared like this the mouth can be set as fine as you like, provided front edge of throat is smooth and square.

This is part of the work that I do with short course students, while tuning their bench planes, on my 5 day summer short courses.

David Charlesworth

 

[Jacob]

..... When prepared like this the mouth can be set as fine as you like, provided front edge of throat is smooth and square.......

Not if you merely want to remove a lot of material i.e. just doing normal planing.
Beginners pick up on the fine mouth idea when opening the mouth may be the solution to their problems. Wide open (frog set back flush with the mouth) is best for most purposes especially for beginners. Also gives a bit of extra support to the back of the blade with less chatter etc. This just about cancels out any fine mouth adjustment advantage, as you then lose the extra support.