No. 10 P&B plane?

[Mailman14]

Hi, I bought this,

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It says "No.10" and P&B. Also a sticker says "selected for the deisn centre London" (Or similar - bits missing), plastic handles, diddy blade, not very heavy -

My question is:-

What do the numbers relating to planes refer to? Was it worth the £8.50 I paid for it and these:-

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??? Any idea folks - just asking to get an idea whether I was ripped off or not, oh and th d/t saw has been refurbished - it now has teeth

Many thanks,

 

[DaveL]

Mailman,

You need to have a look at this thread on picture posting.

From your description you could have a rebate plane, that may well use replaceable blades, when you sort the pictures we will be able to tell better. 8)

 

[Mailman14]

I know, I know.... Tried to edit the link, and then my pooter went
t!ts up...

:evil:

Anyway - the Plane is:-

(sorry for the photo quality)...

The d/t & chisels are:-

 

[DaveL]

Yes, you have a replaceable blade rebate plane, I am not sure if the blades can still be bought, while its not a wonderful tool it with a little work may well be useable.

The chisels, any makers marks on them? Try sharpening one and see how it holds its edge.

I don't think you have done too badly for £8.50, but you will need to buy some saw files to sort that saw out, Bugbear has some web pages of very good advice on how to do it.

 

[Mailman14]

Hi DaveL,
Thanks for your comments, the saw is noe perfect IMHO. I bought a skinny booklet a couple of months ago from Amazon, read it cover to cover, got the teeth setter, sorted my mini files out, and tried on a tenon saw. That worked, so today I sorted the D/T out - quite a pleasurable time sat watching it go from knackered to usable... Or is it just me?

I've come in now, so I'll check the chisels tomorrow, nothing stood out when I checked them earlier - just someone has put a convex surface on the bevel...Might take a while to sort, but I'll get there too in the end!

 

[bugbear]

I know, I know.... Tried to edit the link, and then my pooter went
t!ts up...

:evil:

Anyway - the Plane is:-

Paramo "planemaster" I think.

BugBear

 

[Mikey R]

I've come in now, so I'll check the chisels tomorrow, nothing stood out when I checked them earlier - just someone has put a convex surface on the bevel...Might take a while to sort, but I'll get there too in the end!

Hi, this may sound like a newbie question - I always tend to grind a slight convexity into the bevels on my chisels. I sharpen freehand, so any small variation in the angle whilst sharpenning will cause this.

My question is, why is this such a bad thing? Most chisels are sharpened with a microbevel anyway?

Cheers!

 

[bugbear]

I've come in now, so I'll check the chisels tomorrow, nothing stood out when I checked them earlier - just someone has put a convex surface on the bevel...Might take a while to sort, but I'll get there too in the end!

Hi, this may sound like a newbie question - I always tend to grind a slight convexity into the bevels on my chisels. I sharpen freehand, so any small variation in the angle whilst sharpenning will cause this.

My question is, why is this such a bad thing?
Cheers!

If it's present to a small degree it's not a bad thing. But there's a massively string tendancy for the rounded-ness to increase with successive sharpenings. This leads to a higher than wanted bevel angle, which makes some cuts more difficult to do.

This effect is warned against in the instructional books I have (from 1880 - 1950).

There are multiple approaches to curing it -

* take care to always sharpen at the same angle (by hand), which is quite difficult

* use a honing jog

* accept that the angle which rise gradually, and just grind it out every so often.

The latter is "normal practise" as advocated in the old books.

BugBear

 

[Mikey R]

If it's present to a small degree it's not a bad thing. But there's a massively string tendancy for the rounded-ness to increase with successive sharpenings. This leads to a higher than wanted bevel angle, which makes some cuts more difficult to do.

This effect is warned against in the instructional books I have (from 1880 - 1950).

There are multiple approaches to curing it -

* take care to always sharpen at the same angle (by hand), which is quite difficult

* use a honing jog

* accept that the angle which rise gradually, and just grind it out every so often.

The latter is "normal practise" as advocated in the old books.

BugBear

Thanks BugBear, the last one is what I tend to do too, I have no idea of the angle of the primary bit its fairly shallow, accepting that the secondary will sneak up over time.

I have one book on luthiery by Cumpiano, Natelson and Herlitz that suggests purposefully grinding the bevel round, to allow some of the carving operations on a guitar neck.

At the Harrogate show last year, I noticed that some of Ray Iles second hand chisels were ground like this, so I guess it must be fairly common for other types of carving too.

P.S. Sorry for the thread hyjack!

 

[Tom K]

Oh no not a Derby bevel discussion :lol: (or bezel for Dumbarhamblin)

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Dip don't tip!
The distinction is significant here - the bevel (angle) is realised by the tangent to the bezel at the business end.

Mikey, I have used a round bezelled slick for just this purpose, but now use rasps, files and scrapers after sawing off the excess.

 

[Mikey R]

Dip don't tip!
The distinction is significant here - the bevel (angle) is realised by the tangent to the bezel at the business end.

Mikey, I have used a round bezelled slick for just this purpose, but now use rasps, files and scrapers after sawing off the excess.

Cheers, that tidys that up for me!

I still havent got my rasps yet, but I like the idea as they dont leave any facets thats would need to be rounded over afterwards.

 

[Mailman14]

Hi guys, no worries about the hi-jacking! I do it from time to time myself...


Anyway, here's a (copy of sketchup) pic of the problem:-

It may not seem much - but I'm a Q.C. Inspector, for a living... :roll:

Just wondered if it should be there, IMHO I didn't think so... Wouldn't it interfer with keeping the chisel in a straight / perpendicular line?

Bezel? Bevel? What's the difference?

5 planes - blue handles, no makers name; Black handle has Stanley on it - this also has a bevel on the sides - for mortices (morticii?) blue ones - for tenons? :?:


edit: link, and typo...

 

[Mikey R]

Hi guys, no worries about the hi-jacking! I do it from time to time myself...


Anyway, here's a (copy of sketchup) pic of the problem:-

Thats pretty much what mine end up looking like. But so far I havent really done any joinery more complex than a lap joint, so its not been a problem for me. Maybe it effects the chisel in the more complicated joints?

 

[Tom K]

Hi guys, no worries about the hi-jacking! I do it from time to time myself...


Anyway, here's a (copy of sketchup) pic of the problem:-

So Dumbarhamblins link was of no interest?

 

[andy king]

5 planes - blue handles, no makers name; Black handle has Stanley on it - this also has a bevel on the sides - for mortices (morticii?) blue ones - for tenons? :?:


edit: link, and typo...

The blue handled chisels are Stanleys, either 5001 or 5002, can't recall which of the two, I think blue were 5001, black 5002.
The blue ones were carbon steel finish the black ones had a chrome plating or similar.
The blue ones were rivals to the Marples blue chips - both a favoured chisel of chippies and joiners in the seventies and early eighties.
Your ones are firmer pattern. At the time, the firmers were designated as more heavy duty chisels for site work and carpentry, the bevel edged ones for joinery.
Although Marples made mortice chisels in the Blue Chip handle, I don't recall seeing Stanley making mortice chisels in that pattern. Could be wrong though!
I have set of 5001/2 blue handled chisels, bought in 1977. They are a fair bit shorter than when I first owned them but they are still decent chisels.

hope this helps.

cheers,
Andy

 

[bugbear]

I have one book on luthiery by Cumpiano, Natelson and Herlitz that suggests purposefully grinding the bevel round, to allow some of the carving operations on a guitar neck.

I was confused by that for a moment. The only reason I can think of for that making sense is if it's intended to be used bevel down, with the bevel used as a guide surface. Is that correct?

BugBear

 

[Mikey R]

I was confused by that for a moment. The only reason I can think of for that making sense is if it's intended to be used bevel down, with the bevel used as a guide surface. Is that correct?

BugBear

Yep - its for carving the concave curve under the neck. (neckblock? I really should learn some terminology.)

I suppose carvers would use a gouge for this kind of operation, or a rasp / rifler.

P.S. Im with dunbarhamlin here, I cant see how a slightly rounded bevel is necessarily a bad thing.

Also, my chisels are only Stanleys, so Ive not got a lot to loose from trying different honing techniques.

 

[bugbear]

P.S. Im with dunbarhamlin here, I cant see how a slightly rounded bevel is necessarily a bad thing.

A slightly rounded bevel is typically indicative of a sharpening process that will eventually result in a very rounded bevel.

So a slightly rounded bevel is more of an indicator of a problem, than a problem in its own right.

BugBear

 

[martin99]

P.S. Im with dunbarhamlin here, I cant see how a slightly rounded bevel is necessarily a bad thing.

A slightly rounded bevel is typically indicative of a sharpening process that will eventually result in a very rounded bevel

Not if you choose to keep it as a slightly rounded bevel. Very easy to do - not a problem at all.