Newbie's first powertools?

[Tasky]

Hello,

I didn't see a dedicated area for Newbie Intros, but since it seems to be the custom on forums, I thought I'd say hello anyway...

I'm Tasky, from Reading, just starting to get serious about my DIY and woodwork.
Up until now I've gotten by with a pair of drills, a Dremel™, a little old jigsaw and a few hand tools. That's seen me through decades of fencing, door locks, bike ramps, coal bunkers, archery targets, sword racks, armour stands - all the usual little jobs around the house...

But when the wife bought herself a little detail sander, I knew she meant business!!

So I'm now at the stage of waking up and thinking, "Ya know what? I fancy making a jewelry box/cabinet/writing slope/medieval coffer/something insane"... Not only that, but friends and family have seen my previous work and I often get questions that start, "Could you make me a..."
And for that I need some proper tools, if I want it to look good!


So for small boxes and cabinets, I guess I'll need at least a router and a band saw of some kind?

I've obviously been shopping around a little, avoiding B&Q and just reading reviews, but I don't know the brands and I question more than a few of the reviews, given the wide variance of opinions.
I'm sure you get this question at least once a week, but can anyone recommend any makes/models that don't cost the Earth, but still do a reasonable job for a hobbyist?

 

[Racers]

Power tools only help you make your mistakes faster and more severe.
You can make boxes with only hand tools, mitres can be done on a mitre shooting board etc.
The quiet side of woodwork is very addictive I find, plus you will find out allot more about wood and how it works.

Millars Falls No1 cigar shave by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

 

[sunnybob]

Youre very close to axminster tools basingstoke.
Huge range of machinery you can see and touch.
youre right, unless you have a LOT of work space a bandsaw and a router table will do almost all that you want.

A tablesaw if you have a lot of space, and a drum sander if you have a lot of money.
Go in and see Simon (the manager) dont know if it will help or hinder you to drop my name into the conversation (Cyprus Bob), but I have had well above average service from him and the company as a whole.

From my own experience over the last 3 years of learning about wood, get a bandsaw with 350 mm wheels. a smaller one will cause you frustrations very quickly when you try to cut a 6" deep bandsaw box.

I've made my own router tables (currently on the mk4), but you can get reasonable complete ones, just buy a good make router. I havent found the need for electronic speed control, so that can save you a lump of cash.

And I've just bought a bench top pillar drill, which is being used more and more every day after a lifetime of having a power drill stuffed into a wolfcraft adaptor stand.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A bandsaw is a very useful tool, but you need a reasonably sized one to rip any depth. A router is invaluable, but you will get different advice on the size. For small boxes etc. a 1/4" would be enough and is light and easy to handle, but a 1/2" one will take 1/4" bits (with a collet) and will give you far, far more choice of cutters. The Hitachi M12VE has very good reviews and is about as cheap as gets for a half decent one. I've an old Bosch 1700w and a Bosch POF50 - the small one is good for inlaying and small things, it also fits a 43mm drill stand.

 

[sunnybob]

Pete is a skilled woodworker of unknown years experience, and I'm not arguing with him. But if you dont have several years spare to learn how to make stuff by hand, dont let him put you off.

I started 3 years ago upon retirement. I have arthritic thumbs which stop me using any kind of tool that gives repeated blows to them (hammer and chisels, even very small knocks like planing hardwoods). i didnt let that stop me and am proud of the boxes I make entirely with power tools. yes, I wear ear protectors a lot!

 

[Racers]

I wasn't trying to put him off just nudge him towards the cheap quiet side, he seems to be coping with a minimal tool kit.
After all you don't need that many tools, can't believe I said that, hope the wife isn't watching!

The one power too that is a must is a bandsaw, the bigger the better.

Pete

 

[Ttrees]

Hello Tasky
Welcome to the forum.
If you want to make furniture or boxes, hand tools are the way to go.
I have machinery, but that's for dimentioning lots of stock, the hand plane is used before dimentioning to
have flat faces to register against the fences of the machines.
Then the hand plane finishes the job again

Get yourself a jack plane in collectables on eBay
A Record or a Stanley Bailey with nice thick casting that you can trust.
That will start you off
You can dimention your timber with handsaws.
You are probably used to carpentry saws, which are specifically for crosscutting timber and non re-sharpenable.
Fine for crosscutting, but you need a rip toothed saw for along the length of the grain.

Look up Rob Cosman and see how proficient hand tools can be in this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxIgNel0H_I

Have you got time to shop for bargains on eBay?
Have you got a shed?
Do you like the idea of reclaiming fine timbers?, not talking about pallets,
Are you in a busy town/city or in a rural setting?

It seems to me you want to get a bandsaw, and you've got some cash burning a hole in your pocket.
I strongly recommend you go find someone who has a small bandsaw and you can try it out/
get it thrown at you, as you will not be impressed either,
and it won't be atall like whatever video you seen where it looks an ok machine.
Dont heed ratings on bandsaws, these figures are for cutting FOAM! not timbers.

I salvage all my timbers from doors/ door frames from hotels/pubs/house renovations etc
And have loads of expensive timber now.
Iroko/sapelle/red meranti doesn't rot to easy, and when folks do up a premises they nearly always change the doors
as the paint can look tatty or they have new PVC doors installed for security.
I can find a post with all my fave woodworkers on it mostly hand tool orientated and should get you on the right path.

Tom

 

[Droogs]

If you're after making a coffer etc, surely you want as broad axe, carpenter's hatchet, froe, a shaving horse instead of a bench and a draw knife, if you want it to look proper pukka

Welcome to the forum, you will get plenty of good friendly advice from people who know a lot and a bit of ribbing from people like me who don't.
But a good bandsway would be invaluable for you as you can do a lot on it to size things but think about what space you have to put the machines in as they can take up a lot more than you think when in use

 

[Tasky]

WOW, that's one heck of a response... people are coming out of the woodwork!!!

Quite a few questions, too... where do I start?


Axminster - Sounds great, I've heard of them and they're close enough to take a gander!

Hand vs Power - As some have mentioned, it's more down to my hands and what they won't do these days, as well as skill and time. I have to take breaks (plural) when simply cross-cutting a scaffold board by hand!

I figured I won't need many big power tools and machines, as a lot of what I have in mind will be small, delicate work anyway... but certain aspects of the work would be more enjoyable and less prone to taking a whole weekend (boredom + tiredness + knackered hands = mistakes and accidents) if I can get the rougher stuff done in seconds as opposed to ¼ hours...

If I get into complex things like dovetails, then I will be cracking out the tenon and coping saws... But I really have no inclination or skill for hand-chiseling everything and I don't want a single jewelry box to become my life's work - I need it before Christmas!

Rob Cosman - Wow, yes, genius, amazing. Robert Wearing too, along with all the others who have the skills I don't... it still takes me 3 hours to dovetail, rather than 3 minutes and at my age no amount of hand tool enthusiasm will help, I fear. Hand tooling will be for my own personal fun, but when I need it to look reasonable and not take me months, I need power assistance with things like fences and guides.

Time for eBay - A little, yes, but not much faith in either the sellers, or second-hand tools and distance selling regs.
Shed - Pretty much: Garage, big enough for a car and 2 motorcycles, with bench space around them.
Reclaiming - Nice idea, but no idea where to start without paying ridiculous money at our local reclamation yards.
Setting - Rural area on the edge of a busy town.
Coffer - Yeah, took me a while on Google to figure out what she wants is just a Blanket Box!!

 

[bourbon]

Hi Tasky. Sword racks, Armour stands. Do you do re-enactment by any chance. I'm with the Ferrers Household based in the Midlands. Do you ever come up to Bosworth? You can't miss our group, we are the ones with the fences! If you do make a medieval coffer, for gods sake give the surface a going over with a hand plane, nothing worse than seeing a nice box with circular saw marks on it!!!

 

[Tasky]

Hi Tasky. Sword racks, Armour stands. Do you do re-enactment by any chance.

Heh heh - Actually I did, but not the 'Nonny' kind... I was WW2!!
However, I have friends in the Medieval Siege Society and a personal love of hitting things with sticks and steel, so I made up something to display my collection... and then got drafted in to make something more for the aforementioned. I also did a set of stocks and a pillory for them, once!

If you do make a medieval coffer, for gods sake give the surface a going over with a hand plane, nothing worse than seeing a nice box with circular saw marks on it!!!

TBH, that's why I want power tools - I make lovely rustic-medieval looking stuff with my mediocre hand tools... but unless you live in a peasant hovel it's just not good enough!
Indeed, I was up at Tewkesbury last weekend and could almost have had my own stall, judging from what people there were selling...

 

[bourbon]

We went on Sunday. Yep loads of tat for sale. Jim the pot and Colin of Lionheart replicas were the only people worth going for. some of our group were there, but you wouldn't have spotted us as we camp on the other side of the battlefield and chill out.

 

[Tasky]

So are Axminster the main choice for budget-limited newbies dipping their toes in to see if they like it?
I see Record Power crop up a lot, especially with bandsaws, but are usually accompanied by tales of duff bearings, poor packaging, damage on arrival and flimsy components...?

 

[Ttrees]

There's eBay and gumtree, if you fancy a bigger better machine for bargain without the flimsy components ...If you don't mind fixing them up.
I doubt there's much difference between machine company's introductory models like Axminster, Record power, and Charnwood.
I would go into Axminster first, as they have many tools and good costumer service if you decide on new.

I would be one for fixing up stuff that will work like you imagine it should and last aswell.
Small bandsaws under 14" are for cutting foam at capacity, or 1" tall stock.
Even if you go slow on taller stock, you will be cutting into the thrust guide and making an awfully loud racket.
Don't buy into those ratings from any company as there simply a huge exaggeration.
That goes for the video presentations too.
Look at someone that's not selling tools or trying to get sponsored using a machine like you have your eye on.

If you find a good used machine you will have no bother selling it.
Tom

 

[custard]

archery targets, sword racks, armour stands - all the usual little jobs around the house...

:shock:

You are Henry VIII and I claim my £5.

 

[Tasky]

You are Henry VIII and I claim my £5.

Non, non, I am 'Ercule Poirot, monsieur... !!

There's eBay and gumtree, if you fancy a bigger better machine for bargain without the flimsy components ...If you don't mind fixing them up.

At this stage, I think I'd rather start with something in working condition, to be honest. I've spent enough time on similar projects and I'd like to just get on with the actual fun stuff.

Small bandsaws under 14" are for cutting foam at capacity, or 1" tall stock.

Does that include resawing?
Most of what I have planned will be ripping, mitring and crosscutting under 20mm, I imagine.

 

[Ttrees]

Miters and crosscuts are best suited to a tablesaw.
You can always make a quick jig for these operations for a bandsaw,
I made a very quick one for crosscutting, for what I can't remember.
These will need to be cleaned up on the shooting board afterwards.

If you want to have fun, don't get a small bandsaw, as the amount of time you will spend
just keeping it running normally, will take longer than sorting a large saw out in the end.
Small saws are a PITA if you ask me and only good for curves.
A lot of small new saws will have aluminum fences that need constant checking for square, will deflect
just looking at them
On the Elektra Beckum saw I have...it requires the fence rail to be removed to change a blade..
This means resetting the fence also.
Everything's a faff with it.
Everything being adjustable sounds great on paper, but when everything keeps moving it is just
a hindrance.
Good luck

 

[Tasky]

Miters and crosscuts are best suited to a tablesaw.

I can't afford both - I still need to find a router and a pillar drill...

That, or just buy a jigsaw from B&Q and be done with it.... I'm starting to get why people just use hand tools, rather than spending several grand on power tools and then still more money on buying wood to make jigs every time they need to cut something!! :lol:

 

[Ttrees]

Buying wood ?
Never heard of such a thing
If you want value go second hand, otherwise you will buy twice.
I strongly encourage you to use a small bandsaw before you make a decision.
Good luck

 

[Tasky]

Buying wood ?

The only people of sufficiently low class round here that would use a skip are... well, me... and taking from anyone else's in town might get you stabbed!!
It may just be refuse to someone, but it's their refuse and if you want it you'll pay for it. It's the same even up at the local tip...

I strongly encourage you to use a small bandsaw before you make a decision.

Even though you just suggested otherwise...
It does seem like there's no winning - £600 for a vaguely decent new bandsaw, or £400-odd for the chance at a second hand pile of non-working junk from a brand I've never heard of... AEG? Metabo? Fox?
A lot of those ads look rather... "used car but works fine, gov", if that makes sense?