New workshop .......yes, I have stopped dithering

[Escudo]

One or two of you may remember that for a year or two I have been dithering over organising a new workshop.

Plagued by issues over where to put it, whether to self-build or buy an instant solution, or even whether to move house for a place with some outbuildings, etc etc.

Well, I have finally cracked and ordered a new workshop, home office type building.

I just don't have the time to build the workshop myself and had to stop kidding myself otherwise, and in the cold analysis there was only ever one place to put it in our terraced garden.

Moving house was not really an option as the stamp duty alone would have amounted to more than the cost of the new workshop, base and one or two new machines I have in mind.

Here is a sneak preview of the building which will be arriving at the end of March, 20 x 16 (inc. the veranda, where I plan to put my hammock).

I now have to organise a base for the building which is at the top of the garden. My mate Dick, who runs a groundworks and civils firm is going to do the work on the base and some other work on a retained wall behind the new workshop.

I asked him to prepare for a concrete base in accordance with Mike's excellent specification. This however, will be very expensive as the concrete will have to be pumped up to the site. An alternative option he suggested is a base constructed from heavy concrete slabs, which is much easier and a cheaper option.

I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, and would value the forums opinion?

I don't want to "spoil the ship for a h'aporth of tar" as they say. Will this type of base be strong and stable enough? What method of construction should I request, specification?

Whilst searching for information I stumbled on this site;

http://www.ecobase.biz/index.html

Seems a bit wacky to me - but could this be another solution?

Look forward to receiving comments, guidance before I decide on the base.

Cheers, Tony.

 

[wizer]

Well that's next years bash sorted out!

Well done Tony. I'm envious. Very envious.

 

[warrenr]

Hi Tony,

My first contribution; but in an aspect in which I am qualified as a civil engineer.

Much depends on the state of the ground and whether you going to house heavy woodworking equipment.

A good sound base will be needed if you are going to house heavy equipment. A concrete slab on a good foundation (sand or silt) would be ideal with some gash steel reinforcing to limit any cracking if you can lay your hands on some. Clay may give some problems but probably only localised minor cracking if you put in a drainage layer (say 6") under the concrete slab.

Heavy duty paving slabs (old 2" municipal slabs) laid on a mortar layer would be second option on good ground which has been well compacted. Again an additional 6" hoggin or drainage layer would be sensible on clay.

I am not familiar with the eco base solution; but I would think it would tend to punch into the ground if there is heavy loading and this would cause some movement and could put the workshop structure under stress. The loadings that they quote are likely to be only for the material used and may not reflect the overall loading capacity. Plastic will degrade in sunlight; you need to ask about the expected life of the material and whether it should be covered (at edges)

I hope this helps :!:
Cheers Richard

 

[Mr Ed]

If I was spending some money on a workshop, personally I would do a proper job and cast a concrete base. Although it will cost a bit more, you know from that point onwards that it will do its job.

An alternative, which I favour for decks, is concrete blocks set on concrete - a bit more robust than slabs, but only suitable if the building bears down as point loads;

My advice though, is go for a cast concrete base.

Ed

 

[Woody Alan]

Hi Tony,

Glad you are finally getting sorted. Firstly forget the green thing in no way is it suitable for what you want. I would go with the reinforced slab with thickened edges, that is what I used on my "summerhouse" and that is smaller than your proposal. As for the slabs I don't like the idea. They are hard to get level and have the potential to shift unless they are layed on concrete which defeats the object.
My suggestion if possible is to get your "all in" up to the area where you are going to concrete. This could be by barrow or even get one tonne bags craned over to the top and then do your mix on site, this avoids moving wet concrete and the commitment to acheive in one session.
An alternate might be a precast beam floor.
http://www.milbank-floors.co.uk/bb_tech.shtml
The only thing with that is you'll ned to put in a decent footing and you are back to a considerable amount of concrete. A dilemma indeed.

Alan

 

[matt]

How much is the premium to pump the concrete? If it were a small shed base I can understand your reticence, but as a percentage of the total project cost in this case is it really that significant?

Out of interest... In a terraced site are there implications when it comes to plonking a heavy lump of concrete on top of a terrace? Are there structural considertaions to stop the thing wanting to make its way downhill?

 

[devonwoody]

Hope all goes well with the new workshop, the demo looks good.

 

[woodbloke]

Tony - looks like the new 'shop is going to be fandabby :lol: Whatever base you opt for (personally I'd go for the concrete raft) make sure it's strong enough to support the weight of all that Felder equipment :wink: you're going to stuff it with.
I know that you're also thinking about a new bench, but what about any new Slope inducing hand tools to go in it as well? - Rob

 

[Escudo]

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

I agree with the view that a concrete, reinforced slab is the best type of base, it is also the most expensive option and even more so in my tricky situation, given the location for the base.

Here are some pictures of the garden from a previous thread;

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...-t33115.html?highlight=moving heavy equipment

The ground is very sandy and apparently this is an advantage.

The plan at the moment is to level up the site, complete work on the retaining walls behind, and take stock.

The slab option has been explained to me as follows;

Compact the ground, and if need be add a hardcore layer before also compacting this down.

Bed some 2" heavy slabs on 50mm of strong dry cement mix extra strength at the edges.

The floor of the office building is made from pressure treated timbers 45mm x 75mm. The joist are approximately 140mm apart and the batons are 375mm apart? I am just checking this last piece of information, which doesn't seem quite right if my understanding of these terms is right. :?

I am also going to get an idea of the cost of the concrete slab approach to see how much more this will be.

The more I can save on the base, the more I will have for all that Felder gear Rob. :shock: :shock: Alan, I may just need you to lend me some money the way this is looking :wink:

Thanks again for advice and thoughts, much appreciated.

Cheers, Tony

 

[Woody Alan]

Alan, I may just need you to lend me some money the way this is looking

Tony, my boy! you know me, my rates are always very reasonable. Just come and see me and my mate Dodger and we'll work summut out!
On the plus side Tony you'll be able to let that out as a holiday let if needs be...might even take you up on it myself....if you don't tell the missus

Alan

 

[Woody Alan]

The joist are approximately 140mm apart and the batons are 375mm apart? I am just checking this last piece of information, which doesn't seem quite right if my understanding of these terms is right.

Also just re-read that bit...sounds wrong to me too! joists at 375 15-16" sounds fine but the 140 or 5 1/2 " or thereabouts ?? not sure what that would relate to.

Alan

 

[Lons]

Hi Tony,

My first contribution; but in an aspect in which I am qualified as a civil engineer.

Much depends on the state of the ground and whether you going to house heavy woodworking equipment.

A good sound base will be needed if you are going to house heavy equipment. A concrete slab on a good foundation (sand or silt) would be ideal with some gash steel reinforcing to limit any cracking if you can lay your hands on some. Clay may give some problems but probably only localised minor cracking if you put in a drainage layer (say 6") under the concrete slab.


Heavy duty paving slabs (old 2" municipal slabs) laid on a mortar layer would be second option on good ground which has been well compacted. Again an additional 6" hoggin or drainage layer would be sensible on clay.

I am not familiar with the eco base solution; but I would think it would tend to punch into the ground if there is heavy loading and this would cause some movement and could put the workshop structure under stress. The loadings that they quote are likely to be only for the material used and may not reflect the overall loading capacity. Plastic will degrade in sunlight; you need to ask about the expected life of the material and whether it should be covered (at edges)

I hope this helps :!:
Cheers Richard

+1

All depends on existing ground stability but as an experienced builder I would always recommend the best base you can get.
False economy to scrimp and find the (expensive) workshop has moved and leaked all over your precious machinery.
Weight of machinery is an important consideration also.
If you go for a conc. slab, specify it's use to the supplier who will formulate the correct mix for the job and I suggest you get proper reinforcement mesh from a builders merchant. 2 thicknesses available and sheet size around 3m x 2m (thinnest 6mm from memory is around £17 sheet = vat).

PS
Jammy pipper......how did you get the other half to agree? - Can you have a word with my missus please.

 

[warrenr]

Tony,

With a sand foundation and machinery loading, I would go for a 150mm thick slab with the mesh reinforcement as suggested.

If the sand is clean and compacted, this should not move and the mesh will help with crack control. Belt and braces would be to use a thicker slab.

Richard

 

[Dibs-h]

How much is the premium to pump the concrete? If it were a small shed base I can understand your reticence, but as a percentage of the total project cost in this case is it really that significant?
?

If you get the trucks with a boom arm - it can be around £750-£1k per visit. Or there are the smaller (usually independent operators) who use 6-8" pipes that clamp together and charge £250 per visit.

I've used the latter twice - once for the ground beams and then for the raft - worth every penny, as it was all in and they were done in < 1hr each time.

 

[BigMac]

If you get the trucks with a boom arm - it can be around £750-£1k per visit. Or there are the smaller (usually independent operators) who use 6-8" pipes that clamp together and charge £250 per visit.

I've used the latter twice - once for the ground beams and then for the raft - worth every penny, as it was all in and they were done in < 1hr each time.

Does that work 60m up a steep, non-straight slope?

I think thats the OP's problem.

Would a mini dumper manage the climb? http://www.tcp.eu.com/sales/tracked/mini-dumper.html

Either to take up aggregates and mix on site or just to ferry pre-mixed up at a reasonable speed.

 

[Dibs-h]

If you get the trucks with a boom arm - it can be around £750-£1k per visit. Or there are the smaller (usually independent operators) who use 6-8" pipes that clamp together and charge £250 per visit.

I've used the latter twice - once for the ground beams and then for the raft - worth every penny, as it was all in and they were done in < 1hr each time.

Does that work 60m up a steep, non-straight slope?

I think thats the OP's problem.

Would a mini dumper manage the climb? http://www.tcp.eu.com/sales/tracked/mini-dumper.html

Either to take up aggregates and mix on site or just to ferry pre-mixed up at a reasonable speed.

When they did mine - they were pumping a distance of something in the region of 30m, so don't see why they couldn't pump 60m, after all it's only more lengths of pipe that are needed. The pumps are piston pumps, so don't see 60m uphill being an issue.

The pipes were bending round cars, gates, down steps and round, so straight it doesn't need to be.

 

[woodsworth]

I would go for a 6 inch slab with the perimeter being 8 inches at least to a distance of 1 foot into the building. I would also reinforce it with either a mesh or a grid of rebar on 16 inch centers. Basically you are building a floating slab. If you have to pay for a pump and someone to do the ground work you do not want to scrimp on your slab. Rebar is like insurance in my mind, not completely necessary but it will lessen the likely hood of it cracking.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Tony.

I had my front drive block- paved about ten years ago.
It was excavated to a depth of about three feet (A metre or so I believe) and the builder had a great lorry-load of genuine road stone rollered in.

The blocks are solid as a rock, as flat as the day they were laid, and regularly withstand my son's recovery vehicle when he pops in for lunch!

I'm not recommending paving blocks (Unless you fancy them) but I am recommending having a proper base, with well tamped road stone under the concrete.

As for the workshop, you are well qualified to assess the quality of a wooden building. It looks fine to me, and if it is cedar wood, then with average care, it will last as long as you'll need it.

I wish I had the space. (Well I do really, but SWIMBO will NOT have a shed in the garden, and to her anything not made of brick, is a shed!)

Good Luck
John

 

[Shultzy]

I wish I had the space. (Well I do really, but SWIMBO will NOT have a shed in the garden, and to her anything not made of brick, is a shed!)

There's a "ok to build a brick workshop" if ever I heard one :lol:

 

[Mr Ed]

If you get the trucks with a boom arm - it can be around £750-£1k per visit. Or there are the smaller (usually independent operators) who use 6-8" pipes that clamp together and charge £250 per visit.

I've used the latter twice - once for the ground beams and then for the raft - worth every penny, as it was all in and they were done in < 1hr each time.

Does that work 60m up a steep, non-straight slope?

I think thats the OP's problem.

Would a mini dumper manage the climb? http://www.tcp.eu.com/sales/tracked/mini-dumper.html

Either to take up aggregates and mix on site or just to ferry pre-mixed up at a reasonable speed.

When they did mine - they were pumping a distance of something in the region of 30m, so don't see why they couldn't pump 60m, after all it's only more lengths of pipe that are needed. The pumps are piston pumps, so don't see 60m uphill being an issue.

The pipes were bending round cars, gates, down steps and round, so straight it doesn't need to be.

Provided you get the right plant, you can pump that - I have pumped concrete to the top of a 16 storey building before now without issue, but it is a substantial piece of kit. The bigger issue will be that the pipes will still be full of concrete and needing to be emptied into the pour at the end, so with a small base and a long pump run half of the concrete you need will be sat in the pipes between the foundation and the pump.

Ed