Merry Christmas to me (pre-gloat)

[Trizza]

Ok this is a little premature since I don't have anything in my hands yet to show photos of, but I couldn't resist a bit of pre-gloat!

So I just pulled the trigger on my Christmas present to myself! :ho2 :ho2 I've been using scary sharp for some time now and got along fairly well with it except for coarse grinding and the finest honing, but certainly well enough to work. Definitely a great entry level system, I found. I never liked the temporary nature of it, however, and found that when I get a new tool or need to touch up a tool then I spend more time getting set up than I do actually honing. As a result I far too often end up delaying honing. I've been desiring a more permanent system that I can keep near my bench, ready to go at all times. Waterstones seem to be an excellent price point, but I'd prefer as low maintenance a system as possible, and my bench lives on my balcony so it is regularly exposed to sub-zero temperatures.

I've ordered all 5 grits of DMT's 8*3 Dia-Sharp stones . A bit spendy but I had some extra lying around after saving and some Christmas cash from relatives! I don't have a grinder so the XXC stone should be really handy for repairing chipped edges. Can't wait to take delivery! Hurry up :deer

Question for those out there with the Extra Extra Fine stone - do you feel the need to strop afterwards?

 

[Trizza]

My stones arrived this last week, so heres the obligatory gloat picture!

I haven't tested them terribly much yet, but here's my mini-review so far:

The packaging was a let-down. I ordered these from Howard Schechter at The Perfect Edge in the US, so even after shipping and import tax they were still significantly cheaper than ordering them in Europe, if a little slow to arrive. I expected them to be in boxes, however they were each wrapped in paper and/or bubble wrap - almost like they were bought as OEM or as factory seconds. So a little disappointing at first glance.

These are VERY HEAVY. Reassuringly so - with the included rubber feet attached they really won't slide around at all, they feel very solid and secure.
They're dead flat.
The diamond layer is very interesting - on the Extra Extra Fine stone it is actually hard to tell which side you're meant to use, it is so fine! By contrast the Extra Extra Coarse stone looks almost like sandpaper - very coarse indeed. The other stones are somewhere in between, with Extra Fine feeling already very smooth.

Now, usage: First I opened the box of goodies at the office and my boss (who is mad about cooking) demanded a demonstration on the office kitchen knives, so we took them there for a test run. I skipped the EEC stone for this test, and worked one knife through to EEF clumsily - I've never tried sharpening a kitchen knife before and found it difficult to maintain a consistent angle. Even so, the result was very impressive! I used them dry here, and the stones sure removed a lot of steel in a hurry - even the EF and EEF stones rapidly built up a pile of shavings. I was able to hang a piece of newspaper in the air with one hand and cut a curved pattern in it with the knife. I was also able to finely slice wet sponge.

After getting them home I put them to a proper test - I bought a Hock plane kit when on holiday in the US recently and the iron needed its initial working over. I used slightly soapy water sprayed on as lubricant here, and it really helped to remove the dust in a hurry.
I usually use the ruler trick when I flatten the back of an iron - it makes the job so much faster. This time, though, I flattened the whole first few centimeters of the iron - I started out with the EEC stone and it tore into the steel amazingly fast - a few minutes on that stone and it was ready for the coarse stone. It seemed to take quite a while to remove all the scratches from the EEC stone - the Extra Coarse stone (which they don't make in the Dia-Sharp range) was missed here, but still it was only a few minutes before I could move up the grits again. Each subsequent grit took no more than a minute. In no time it was flat and polished by the EEF stone!
Next up I honed the bevel - this was really fast. A few strokes on the EEC stone had the machining marks taken off and a bevel established (Hock irons are hollow ground so it goes very fast). It only took a few strokes on each stone after that to remove the scratches from the previous grit. I would guess that it was less than 20 seconds per stone. Very, very fast!

The sharpness test after removing the wire edge was to try shaving my arm! Normally the finest edge I got from my Scary Sharp setup was able to shave my arm, but it took some pressure. However with this iron the hairs were literally flying off my arm - very impressive.

Cleanup was easy - just wiped them off with paper towel and some more water.

Since then I have restored a block plane iron's chipped edge, for which I was very grateful that I had the EEC stone. This made a previously 30 minute procedure take only 5 minutes or so.
However, if you have a bench grinder then I wouldn't bother with the Extra Extra Coarse stone. I do not, so for me it is a life-saver for renewing chipped edges. The Coarse stone cuts VERY fast, so it is more than sufficient unless you have to remove a lot of material. I may still like to get something else for polishing, like a Japanese water stone, as I didn't get a nice mirror effect off the EEF stone, but certainly the edge is very, very sharp as is! You can clearly feel the difference between a new stone and one that you've used for a while - the action at first is very aggressive, totally unlike any stone I've used before, but after breaking them in they feel much like an oilstone.

So, the verdict? Pleased as punch! Finally a nice low maintenance system that I can pull out at any time and be using within seconds. They stack very neatly so storage isn't a problem even in the smallest of shops. They could happily sit on my bench at all times, despite its small size.

 

[woodbloke]

Interesting...I went from DMT's to 'scary sharp' (3M lapping film) and achieved much better edges on planes and chisels - Rob

 

[Trizza]

Note that my "Scary Sharp" system did not use 3M lapping film. There is no economical way to get them in Finland that I have found. I was using hardware-store bought sandpapers, which are not as consistent or as fine as 3M film. Certainly, they're more annoying to mount.

My biggest problem with it was that I would never wear a strip out in a single use, however the strips would always begin to peel off the glass and the glue would begin to fail before I had a chance to use the same piece again (keep in mind that my workshop is on my aparment balcony - exposure to elements doesn't play nice). As a result I found that I had to strip the old grits, use a solvent and lots of elbow grease to remove the old strips of sandpaper, and then cut and glue a set of new strips to my glass before I could begin sharpening, almost every time I wanted to sharpen. So just wanting to touch up an iron became a 30 minute odyssey.

I may still invest in some 3M films for the sole purpose of final honing. Either that or diamond paste. Anyway, the EEF stone seems to give an awesome edge as is.

 

[woodbloke]

Note that my "Scary Sharp" system did not use 3M lapping film. There is no economical way to get them in Finland that I have found. I was using hardware-store bought sandpapers, which are not as consistent or as fine as 3M film. Certainly, they're more annoying to mount.

My biggest problem with it was that I would never wear a strip out in a single use, however the strips would always begin to peel off the glass and the glue would begin to fail before I had a chance to use the same piece again (keep in mind that my workshop is on my aparment balcony - exposure to elements doesn't play nice). As a result I found that I had to strip the old grits, use a solvent and lots of elbow grease to remove the old strips of sandpaper, and then cut and glue a set of new strips to my glass before I could begin sharpening, almost every time I wanted to sharpen. So just wanting to touch up an iron became a 30 minute odyssey.

I may still invest in some 3M films for the sole purpose of final honing. Either that or diamond paste. Anyway, the EEF stone seems to give an awesome edge as is.

Agreed, the system that you describe for SS would be a right pain in the aris and the dmt's would be a giant leap forward both in terms of convenience and the edge obtained. However, the EEF stone (although pretty good) isn't as fine as the smaller micron 3M papers (the 1 micron is about 12000g and the .3 is around 36000g :shock: ) which are really only used for polishing the bevel if required. If you're interested in the lapping films, I'd suggest you give Matthew at Workshop Heaven a PM and see what the postage is to your neck of the woods. It won't be much as the films are very light. No affiliation btw, but I was stunned at just how good they are - Rob

 

[Trizza]

I had my eye on the 1 & .3 micron films, and might invest in a pack of those at some point. Hmmm... I have a gift voucher to spend with Matthew.... Is there such a thing as a slippery sharpening slope?

 

[woodbloke]

I had my eye on the 1 & .3 micron films, and might invest in a pack of those at some point. Hmmm... I have a gift voucher to spend with Matthew.... Is there such a thing as a slippery sharpening slope?

I'd go for the 5 and the I...the .3 seems a bit pointless unless you need that final uber-polish. Make sure also that you get the self-adhesive ones as well. Half a dozen of each (cut into 70mm wide strips, so 4 strips to one sheet) will last for years and use something like WD40 or a very thin machine oil (sewing machine) or even central heating oil...excellent stuff. I use paraffin which is great - Rob

 

[Trizza]

Well, the extra extra fine DMT is 3 micron, so I figured 5 micron film would be a bit pointless.

I've been using paraffin with my scary sharp setup in the past - its ludicrously cheap if you buy it in the form of supermarket own-brand baby oil. Useful stuff to have around, and smells like babies

 

[woodbloke]

Well, the extra extra fine DMT is 3 micron, so I figured 5 micron film would be a bit pointless.

Matthew's better half :lol: has done a bit of research on the comparative grits 'twixt Japanese water stones, 3M films and ordinary papers, both here and in the US of A. As you can see, it's not easy to sort out which is which (at least not for me) but I tend to finish on the 5 micron 3M film and then have a final couple of swipes on the 1 micron...seems to work for me and the edges are sharper than my previous system, which was the Fine DMT and 10000g Spyderco ceramic finishing stone - Rob

 

[bugbear]

Well, the extra extra fine DMT is 3 micron, so I figured 5 micron film would be a bit pointless.

Matthew's better half :lol: has done a bit of research on the comparative grits 'twixt Japanese water stones, 3M films and ordinary papers, both here and in the US of A.

This is a perennial question; the "classic" reference was this:

http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

but it hasn't been updated in a while.

BugBear (who feels a deep google coming on)

 

[Harbo]

Bugbear - I seem to remember you quoting the "gritsize" for Autosol - Googling did not reveal it?

I need something to polish some granite and Autosol was too coarse!

Rod

 

[graween]

Hi Trizza.

I bought about 3 years ago a set like yours. But only 3 stones, extra extra coarse, coarse and fine.
I was happy at the beginning, only to find that only the fine stone was flat.

A bit annoying, as I orginialy bought them to flatten, some chisels or plane blades backs.

So finally I was dissapointed and only use them from time to time for tasks that does not require flatness along the whole stone. For example changing the bevel angle of blades.

Test yours for flatness, with a trustable edge. I waited too much, for mines and then was not able to get back at the vendor. Especially as I bought them like you from US and as they're heavy, the shipping is to expensive.

Sorry, about that, but let us know about it !

 

[Trizza]

Thanks for the heads up - that would indeed suck! I checked mine and they are flat.

 

[Jack in Nepean]

A rather cheap alternative to the 3M film is a bit of this green honing compound (<http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32093&cat=1,43415,43439>) mixed with a bit of baby/mineral oil on piece of mdf (the mdf is amazing flat) for a final polish. It seems to work very well on A2 and O1 steels as well as the very hard asian steels. I've had a bar of it for years and have only reduced its weight by about 2 ounces. It gives a very fine finish after stones and seems to last forever. Not sure what the shipping would be to Finland, but at only 6 oz. it shouldn't be prohibitive. There may be local suppliers who specialize in metal polishes who might have a similar product. FWIW

 

[Trizza]

Good tip Jack - I notice that Matt at Workshop Heaven sells a similar looking bar. If I cut a piece of MDF to the same size as the stones then it'll fit nicely into the storage box that I'm planning, too