Making my first thing...

[ScaredyCat]

Hi all,

I've just started out on my woodworking journey, I've a software developer by trade so all this physically hands on stuff is new to me. I'm not a competent DIYer at all if fact more of a disaster area in that respect. However, I've decided to have a go at woodwork anyway. (hammer)

I thought I'd build myself a cabinet to keep all the various random tools I've picked up in my general life, you know the type of stuff, it doesn't match, it's from random brands and it's cheap. I've had some success gluing up some panels using wood I've purchased from ebay (I didn't know that PAR is almost PAR ) and have been using my cabinet scraper to clean them up a bit post glue-up. I find the cabinet scraping to be quite therapeutic and rewarding.

Anyway, on to the cabinet and the issue I'm having (some pictures might help too):

(Ahh ok, I can't show pictures, I've attached them..let's see if that works )

Anyway, from what I understand making a cabinet like this is done by making a box with a back and a front all joined together and then cutting the front section that will form the doors, off. I understand this is for alignment.

If you look at the 'front' image you'll see there's a recess. This is for a sliding work surface can be pulled out independently of the doors being opened/closed - you'll see my 'doors' don't go to the bottom of the cabinet. So, here's the question: How do I cut my doors off without cutting a section of the bottom part where the recess is? Also, I know I can clean up the glue after putting one of the panels on (front or back) but what do you do after you've done the other one? If there's no way to get inside to clean it up before cutting the front off wont it just be a mess that's difficult to clean up (hardened)?

For the box construction I thought I'd attach the sides to the top and bottom with sliding dovetails and inset the front and panels to be flush. Shelves similarly done.

Is the sliding dovetail a suitable joint for this? Initially the cabinet will be sat on top of another surface but later I'd like to hang it on the wall if possible (although I'm flitting between that and making it s own base.) My concern is that the bottom might pull off and away from the upper part of the cabinet. Is this likely?

Bottom and top are 25mm Sapele (as is the sliding work surface) , sides/shelves will be 19mm beech (although not purchased that yet so other suggestions welcome, I do like the contrast though). Front and back - well I'm a little torn over this. I'm not entirely sure I want to make panels for those parts, but then, I'm not entirely sure I want to use plywood either. I've considered at bb/bb 18mm plywood, certainly for the back because that'll be covered with tools and hiding it. Really not sure about the front though. Am I suffering from plywood snobbery?

I'm trying my hardest not to make the most expensive firewood ever. Your comments, good or bad, are welcome and encouraged

Sorry, post got a bit long..

 

[thetyreman]

couple of things here, are you sure you want sliding dovetails? do you not mean ordinary dovetail joints on the corners? you could use sliding dovetail dados for the shelves, but just ordinary through dado joints are just as strong and miles easier to make.

This is quite a lot to take on for someone new to woodworking, not saying you can't do it, but it might disappoint you, and that's the last thing you need!

I would make a very accurate drawing with the final dimensions, so you have a reference and stick to it, obviously then you will know exactly how much wood you need.

 

[thetyreman]

also bear in mind a lot of old tool chests were just made from redwood pine that is painted, and they've lasted over 100 years

 

[custard]

Congratulations, making solid wood furniture is just about the most satisfying thing imaginable! However, I'm not sure jumping straight in with a project is the best way to begin.

Imagine you were a learner driver. You wouldn't start by saying "I'm going to drive from Norwich to Crewe". You'd start by learning how to pull away in first gear, how to change to second gear, how to use the mirrors and steering wheel, etc.

To transfer that analogy to your situation, you need to learn how to saw to a line, how to plane a board square and true, how to sharpen your tools, how to glue two boards together to make a wider board, etc.

With huge resolve, a high tolerance to frustration, and (to be blunt) pretty low quality standards, you could commence with a project and learn it all on the job. But the better way is probably to start with a rough sawn board about 600mm x 150mm x 25mm, a plane and a square, and then set to removing the inevitable cupping, crook, and wind in order to turn it into a square and true board.

Good luck!

 

[cowfoot]

You might be better off starting with a project that you can follow online - check out Paul Sellers.
Jumping straight in with something you've designed yourself is, in my experience, a recipe for frustration.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

What tools/machines do you have, do you have a bench? It is hard to answer the questions of how to make a thing without knowing what is available to make them.

I agree with Custard though, for a first project that is a bit ambitious.

I have recently recommended the book 'Complete Woodworking' by Chris Tribe for novices, it is an excellent primer, and has a tool cabinet as one of the projects in latter chapters, though man made board construction rather than solid wood. It is a great book for developing all the skills you'll need.

Mike

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Photos on here can be really frustrating.

You need to have made a certain number of posts.
AND
You need to set your phone/camera to take quite small / low quality photos (that's what I remember doing)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's easier to set the camera than to have to reduce every photo.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

You'll really enjoy making boxes and cabinets but getting everything straight, flush and perpendicular in 3 dimensions is quite tricky.

Maybe just butt joint the boards and reinforce the corners with some blocks of wood.

A toolbox is a great place to start - but don't flog yourself to death making it. First time I made one - it ended up being a pain in the back side. Didn't quite fit in the small boot we had. Got in the way and was tripped over many times. All that hard work and I ended up chopping six inches off the end and patching it back together. Looked a right mess after that!!

Go for it - but keep it simple. You'll learn loads more that way.

Good luck

 

[ScaredyCat]

Thanks for all your comments, much appreciated.

I chose sliding dovetail as the joint since it seemed like a 'nice' one to do. I thought if I did it half-blind (?) then it'd look nothing special from the front, but from the back, truth would be out - Is it not as strong as regular dovetails? I don't mint the overhang for the top/bottom that I'd need for it as I was thinking I could hang longer things, spirit levels/rulers /clamps etc from the sides anyway.

While I understand where you're all coming from, learn the basics then do the job, and I know that youtube videos make everything look simple to do but I'm happy to try and fail, then try some more. I'm not building for a job, nothing about the time taken is critical and expensive firewood is a good reason to triple check everything I do. If the cabinet looks shonky it'll serve as a reminder of what I did wrong and what I need to concentrate on. I'm sure, even on your very best pieces you could all find fault with them somewhere, but that's not something anyone else would notice.

Imagine you were a learner driver. You wouldn't start by saying "I'm going to drive from Norwich to Crewe". You'd start by learning how to pull away in first gear, how to change to second gear, how to use the mirrors and steering wheel, etc.

That would have been a great analogy if I hadn't learned to ride a motorcycle by jumping on and riding from Diss to Cambridge and back again

I know I need to learn basic skills and those are on the cards, but I've sort of prepared for this. Although I've glued up boards to make the panels already, I've also made some off-cuts (also glued up) that I'll be practising on.

As for tools.. Oh my.. well I've basically got nothing but a few bits and pieces. I'm starting to buy little bits as I need them. So far I have:

A bench top from my first glue-up* that I fit to my Workmate for a slightly bigger working surface
Plane, Stanley SB4
Ryobi drill + bits
Glue
A Square
A framing square
A Ruler and a tape measure
A mitre saw (Makita MLS100 2nd hand)
Some blunt chisels
Card scrapers
A jig I made for gluing panels
A sander
Screwdrivers
Palm router (Katsu, seems to be the Matika 700 but without the pricetag)
1/4" router bits
A burnisher
Some Rolson files
Knife
Claw hammer
4 bench cookies

I don't have a vice yet, I plan on attaching it to the bench top (from underneath, if that makes sense)

Next on my list is a sharpening stone for the plane and chisels and also a Japanese Kataba saw and a jointing plane and smoothing plane and some clamps. One of the big things I've found is that when looking at reviews cheap tools tend to not even fulfil their basic requirements, eg squares that aren't square, planes that don't have flat soles etc. Makes it rather frustrating.

* it went a bit wrong, I didn't joint the edges, in my defence I was sold PAR and I thought that was good enough.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Not a bad kit for starting, but I would suggest a Japanese saw might be better left for when you've a lot more experience, they are rather specialist and easily ruined. A hard points tenon and handsaw would be a better start and indeed for continuing. Something like an Irwin 12 inch tenon is what we use in school and gives good results. I quite like spear and Jackson predator saws for hand saws.

You'll need to get a sharpening stone ASAP you'll not get far, have much fun with dull tools. You might (will) need more than one though. One which gives a fine enough edge to use will not remove a lot of metal when you need to establish a new edge. The book i recommend covers good sharpening technique without being overly complicated or needing expensive kit.

When you eventually do handplane, i think your workmate might frustrate you, find something quick will support your worktop more rigidly. You'll know what i mean when you give the plane a go on a project.

Mike.

 

[Brentingby]

Have you looked at tool cabinets built by others to get your design inspiration? You might have a look at this for example. Maybe the interior doesn't suit your needs but the construction of the case would be worth looking at.

 

[ED65]

As for tools.. Oh my.. well I've basically got nothing but a few bits and pieces. I'm starting to buy little bits as I need them. So far I have:

A bench top from my first glue-up* that I fit to my Workmate for a slightly bigger working surface
Plane, Stanley SB4
Ryobi drill + bits
Glue
A Square
A framing square
A Ruler and a tape measure
A mitre saw (Makita MLS100 2nd hand)
Some blunt chisels
Card scrapers
A jig I made for gluing panels
A sander
Screwdrivers
Palm router (Katsu, seems to be the Matika 700 but without the pricetag)
1/4" router bits
A burnisher
Some Rolson files
Knife
Claw hammer
4 bench cookies

That's a good start, far more than I had when I first started. I think I had a full set of files, a slightly worn backsaw, a coffin smoother, some sharpening gear and that was it!

Next on my list is a sharpening stone for the plane and chisels...

If you're after oilstones car boots are your cheapest bet for this if you have any decent ones within striking distance. Good old oilstones are available for a snip almost everywhere. In the meantime you can sharpen on wet 'n' dry paper.

If you'd like to try diamond plates I can direct you to a thread from a short while ago for the cheapest ones going and they appear to be reasonably good quality so far. No idea how they'll hold up to use but they're so cheap you could if you had to buy replacements once a year for the next ten years and you'd still be under the cost of many name-brand ones!

...and some clamps.

Old joke in woodworking circles is you can never have too many clamps. So may I suggest you change from some clamps to numerous clamps, as budget allows

One of the big things I've found is that when looking at reviews cheap tools tend to not even fulfil their basic requirements, eg squares that aren't square, planes that don't have flat soles etc. Makes it rather frustrating.

Unfortunately squares that aren't square is not something limited to cheap ones by any means :shock:

And on the flip side, the Aldi chisels that you may have read about online are a great example that you don't have to pay a lot to get a worthwhile bit of kit. My experience with cheaper planes echoes this, all the new ones I've bought had soles that were acceptably flat straight from the factory.

...I didn't joint the edges, in my defence I was sold PAR and I thought that was good enough.

Even if the wood had been absolutely perfectly square you'd still have been better off doing something to the edges prior to assembling the panel. Reason being that old wood surfaces glue much less reliably than fresh ones. For critical joints like butt joints in a panel you want to work the wood and glue it within an hour, and ideally less than this.

 

[ScaredyCat]

If you'd like to try diamond plates I can direct you to a thread from a short while ago for the cheapest ones going and they appear to be reasonably good quality so far. No idea how they'll hold up to use but they're so cheap you could if you had to buy replacements once a year for the next ten years and you'd still be under the cost of many name-brand ones!

If you would I'd appreciate it, and if you also know of a half decent honing guide I'd appreciate that too.

I've been having a think about my cabinet and I'm toying with the idea of using Greene and Greene type joints which seem to take into account that one might be terrible at this stuff. From what I've seen and read, they used screws to hold the pieces together, hiding them under plugs. I was thinking of doing something similar, but not using screws, just contrasting dowel rod, cut flush. For my cabinet I was thinking white maple would be a nice contrast to the Sapele.

I thought that, since watching a video detailing the process, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxJ6qINNgmU it looked forgiving and would allow me to build something, gain confidence and move on to better, perhaps 'real' joints.

 

[curtisrider]

Where in Suffolk are up you based? If you need help/use of tools you don't have yet then I may be able to help you

 

[ScaredyCat]

Where in Suffolk are up you based? If you need help/use of tools you don't have yet then I may be able to help you

I'm just outside DIss.

As you can see, starting from scratch so any assistance would be very welcome indeed

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've read the thread through and I think you are in danger of pitching your hopes a little high. Start with something very simple, and you will see what I mean. If you make e.g. a three legged stool no matter how perfect it is you will still look at it afterwards and think why didn't I use a better/cheaper/darker/lighter wood? Would it have been better wider? Shorter? Higher? Then you move on and do something a little more complex ... having given it more thought - the object of the exercise, learning. Ambition is fine, we wouldn't get anywhere without it - but by choosing a design above your ability you will only succeed in putting yourself off what can be a lifelong love.

When I was at school after we had done a couple of years woodwork we were allowed to attempt anything so long as we could provide our own drawn, good, clear, accurately scaled plans - we used to think it pointless, but as I got better I realised that it was a very good limiter, the master's theory being that if we couldn't draw it accurately we didn't understand how to make it. Could you draw your chosen piece, including accurately scaled joints? It's worth a thought.
Incidentally, a decent bench is a good starting place - you won't get far ultimately without one. Read anything by Kingshott, Charles Hayward and Robert Wearing. Watch Lidl as well for chisels - they are equal to the Aldi ones but have hornbeam handles (which I prefer). Hunt the carboots for good tools - I've not paid more than £30 for a plane (and that one many people here would give their eye teeth for ) or £4 - £5 for chisels, Ward and Paynes 100 years old plus.
http://www.waterstonesmarketplace.com/C ... matches=29 shows there are good books around for the price of a magazine - this next is the bible if you can find a cheap one - http://www.waterstonesmarketplace.com/b ... &hs=Submit (I got one for 50p :lol: )
Techniques, tools and practices don't change too much - an old book will be largely still relevant.
I apologise if I've been negative, but this isn't half as negative as an abject failure first off will be.

 

[ED65]

If you'd like to try diamond plates I can direct you to a thread from a short while ago for the cheapest ones going and they appear to be reasonably good quality so far. No idea how they'll hold up to use but they're so cheap you could if you had to buy replacements once a year for the next ten years and you'd still be under the cost of many name-brand ones!

If you would I'd appreciate it...

Instead of pointing you to the original thread I'll just post the link to the ebay seller who has them currently for £2.55 each (with free shipping). Grit range is 80 to 3000 as you can see.

At that price you could buy a good few to test out if you're curious, but the must-haves for me would be an 80, a 240, a 1000 and a 3000 (the 3000 wouldn't be essential for me but I'd like to check it out and see what it can do). You might prefer something less aggressive at the low end, so 150, in which case 320, 600 & 2000 might go well with that.

...and if you also know of a half decent honing guide I'd appreciate that too.

Would a super-duper one do instead? See the one on Brent Beach's pages here for what may be the best honing guide, evah. Don't get overwhelmed by all the technical information on his pages, just build the honing guide to begin with.

I would strongly encourage you to try to pick up freehand honing over time. Being able to freehand hone gives you more versatility and is usually faster, but many people find it difficult to get good results consistently so in the meantime you do need a honing guide.

 

[piggybladder]

I was in the same boat as you 18 months ago. If I had my time again I'd start with spending good money on good laying out equipment. You're absolutely lost without it. Start with a half decent combi square/protractor. The RDG Tools one looks a good bet. A good quality 3" engineering square is invaluable for machine setting, table saws, mitre saws, pillar drills. I bought 2 Marples squares and a set of Faithful engineering squares and they're not very precise at all. I wish I'd bought a RDG combi and a 3" Kinex engineering square. I bought a grade B granite surface plate off ebay soon after I started kitting out. Turned out to be one of my best investments. Not only for flattening chisels (like the £7 Lidl cheapos which worked great) and plane blades but also for checking the flatness of rulers, squares etc. I use it all the time.

When I started out I also bought a cheapo No4 and No6 Anant plane. I was seduced by the price - £25 each at the time - and the thought that I wouldn't use them much as I have a portable planer/thicknesser. I knew they'd be crap but was prepared to fettle and flatten them. Took a long time but they came good, especially after I retro-fitted Quangsheng chipbreakers and standard Stanley blades. Not too expensive and shave really well. I like the no6 a lot but it is heavy for prolonged use. I'm not sure I'd bother with a No4 at all now. And the planer/thicknesser? Pretty damned hopeless except for very rough dimensioning if I have a lot of wood to prepare. I rely on the exactness and versatily of the handplanes for all proper dimensioning and finishing.

If I had my time again I'd have just bought a decent quality No5 handplane with 2 extra blades: 1 straight blade for shooting, 1 slightly cambered for smoothing and 1 more deeply cambered for scrubbing. A No7 is a big investment unless you're gonna use it a lot or can get one really cheap. A No5 can do everything.

As to honing jigs, I started out with a Veritas MkII and the additional cambered roller. I wish I hadn't. The straight roller doesn't give a 90 deg face. It's off by a degree or so. The cambered roller works well for plane blades. But the jig won't hold chisels well without further outlay on an additional chisel holder. It works out really expensive and it's heavy and cumbersome to use and a PITA to change angles. I recently bought the cheapo Eclipse style honing guide from Screwfix which works really well for chisels and plane blades, straight or cambered. It's so light, quick to set up and easy to use. A real gem but it needs a tiny bit of fettling per Deneb Puchalski's video for Lie Nielson on Youtube.

And for stones I started out with cheapo Chinese ones from Rutlands, 1000, 3000 and 5000. Subsequently added a 240/800 combi stone, (don't underestimate the need for a coarse stone). Then I went hybrid and added 1 micron and 1/2 micron Scary lapping films.

If I did this again from scratch I'd go with a full hybrid system. Diamond as low grit as you can get/afford for initial shaping or re-shaping. Less than 240 would be ideal. 1000 grit diamond for primary bevels and initial cut on the secondary bevels, then straight to a 8000 water stone for final cut on the secondary and microbevel. Final polish on the micro bevel with the lapping films. I use a microbevel on plane blades, a la Charlesworth, as it's so quick and clean to re-hone. A tiny spritz of water on 1/3 sheets lapping film, 3 swipes on each and you're done.

 

[gmgmgm]

I'd echo the "start out simple"! Even making something as simple as a basic tray using glue and screws without any gaps showing could surprise you. Try it... after making a couple of basic trays (which are always appreciated around the house) then you'll be able to build a cabinet much more easily.

I'd also advise staying away from plywood. While it looks much easier (it's square! it's flat!) I've found solid wood is so much more forgiving. And nicer to work.

Good luck!