lie neilson

[mtt.tr]

At the ally pally i saw the lie neilson planes and chisles and they dont out at me they just look horribe what a shame i thought.

i find it sad to say this but tools arnt what they used to be.

 

[Vann]

I think you'll find Lie-Nielsen are very good quality (probably the best of the big three).

Personally, I like the looks. I think they look better than Cliftons or Veritas. I suppose beauty is, as they say, in the eye of the beholder. I just don't like the LN prices (nor the A2 irons).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[mtt.tr]

I wasnt saying they dont work just surley they can do better on the finish. i think it was a bronze one with obvious machine marks in for the cost it shouldnt be expected

 

[jimi43]

I think the Veritas look like Lexus....Cliftons like Bentleys and LN like McLarens....

Wouldn't mind any of them, it's just a matter of taste and what your mood is that day....cruisin' or a quick trip around Brands! :mrgreen:

For "disappointed" I go to B&Q and look at a bubble-pack called Irwin....or even worse...a B&Q copy! :shock:

Jim

 

[Scouse]

I wonder if it was simply the one that got away. In my experience (16 planes, 13 chisels in daily use for over 6 years) I've never had a problem with quality from L/N, nor the A2 blades.

I also don't think I would worry too much about light machine marks unless they affected the performance of the tool.

 

[woodbloke]

There was a post t'other day about someone (forget who) saying that they thought the O1 chisels from LN were not so well finished as the earlier A2 variants - Rob

 

[yetloh]

I think the Veritas look like Lexus....Cliftons like Bentleys and LN like McLarens....

Wouldn't mind any of them, it's just a matter of taste and what your mood is that day....cruisin' or a quick trip around Brands! :mrgreen:

For "disappointed" I go to B&Q and look at a bubble-pack called Irwin....or even worse...a B&Q copy! :shock:

Jim

Can't agree with you there Jim. I know you were being light-hearted but the motor industry analogy contains a serious point because both LN and Clifton would be dead if they were competing in that business - both are essentially making better made copies of pre WW1 Stanley Bedrocks. For me, LN is more like the pre-BMW Rolls Royce but not as nicely finished - living on past glories but utterly failing to move the game on. Clifton is similar but made to lower tolerances - perhaps a last generation Jaguar, looks pretty but... Veritas are for me the real McLaren, the looks are sometimes challenging but the product is full of innovation and beautifully engineered and made.

Can't comment on the finish standards of current production LNs as it is a while since I looked at any but I do sympathise with those who are less than enthusiastic about the A2 steel that has become so prevalent. It works OK but I do believe that the high carbon steel of laminated Japanese blades and QS's T10 steel take a significantly better edge.

Jim

 

[jimi43]

Agreed Jim...your analogy fits the model far better than mine.

I guess Norris would be a Morgan then? :mrgreen:

All that wood infill an' all! 8)

Jim

 

[Scouse]

For me, LN is more like the pre-BMW Rolls Royce but not as nicely finished - living on past glories but utterly failing to move the game on. Clifton is similar but made to lower tolerances - perhaps a last generation Jaguar, looks pretty but... Veritas are for me the real McLaren, the looks are sometimes challenging but the product is full of innovation and beautifully engineered and made.

I hate to disagree, but surely the phrase 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' applies here. Most people are used to Bailey adjustment, so why would a company such as L/N or Clifton looking to sell traditional planes to a largely traditional market seek to alter a winning formula?

For me the Veritas planes offer 'looks' as you say, but innovation? I dunno about that... (The Norris adjuster was patented in 1913 :wink: )

 

[Jacob]

.....
... (The Norris adjuster was patented in 1913 :wink: )

And isn't very good.
It looks neat and simple but it simply doesn't work as well as the more complicated but highly effective Stanley/Bailey set up.

 

[mtt.tr]

yes the norris adjuster can be fun

 

[yetloh]

The question is not whether it is broken, but whether it can be better. We can argue about the adjuster (yes, the Bailey is a very clever piece of design) personally, I am very happy with either type but it's all the little details in the Veritas that make the difference. Just put an LN skew block plane next to the new Veritas equivalent; the bronze LN may look OK but, from a design point of view it is very primitive compared with the Veritas.

Jim

 

[Argus]

.

It’s all a matter of preference.

Personally I have LN a Veritas large shoulder plane side by side on the bench. I reach for the Veritas most often because I prefer it.
Simple as that.
Oh yes, the two sets of adjusting grub screws on the Veritas might have something to do with it…… Frankly, it’s a better tool in my opinion.
I mentioned this to an acquaintance down the road who inclined to the exact opposite.
It’s all a matter of preference.


When it comes bigger planes, I had some decent bonus come my way one day - no, I’m not a banker - anyway, it was long, long before we were bothered about that sort of thing, so I was happy to trouser the cash and so was the taxman, vicariously.

It was when Clifton first brought out their No: 7. and I was in the market for a treat in the form of retiring my old Record No: 7. for something a little bit better.

So I went into Axminster’s. It was in the days when the old shop was like Aladdin’s cave and the Styles’ still worked behind the counter. I held a LN No: 7 in one hand and a Clifton No: 7 in the other, and I was blowed if I could spot almost a hundred quid difference in quality.
So I bought the Clifton.

I still use the Clifton and it’s as good now as then. However, the LN bevel-up smoother is my choice of smaller planes.

It’s all a matter of preference.

But one thing that can also be said again is that their products are over-priced in the UK, in my opinion, but it’s evidently what the market will bear.


.

 

[Scouse]

Hmm... I've been drawn into a similar argument on this forum before and I'm not going there again!!! :wink:

At the end of the day, it is down to personal preference, and all I can say is that I have owned a couple of Veritas planes, found them fiddly, awkward and fragile, however good their design and supposed engineering innovation was.

So for me, needing to rely on these tools alone to make money, Lie Nielsen, three late 1950's Records and 2 Stanleys do the job without me needing to think about the tool while in use. I really don't care what they look like.

For you, the Veritas may provide an equivalent solution to L/N for me. And that's cool; variety is, after all, the spice of life. 8)

As for the A2, again personal preference I suppose. The L/Ns came with A2, and I had no choice, so I just got on with it. I cut everything from bubinga and wenge to spruce, and have never had an issue.

Just an observation a bit off topic but related, but there does seem to be a lot of navel gazing when it comes to planes, choice of steel, flattening soles to within a micron, etc which I don't understand. I'm not having a go, but I don't get it; they're just tools. I know many people are new to woodworking, have no formal training and need a helping hand, but this stuff just seems to over-complicate what is a fairly simple operation. As I said, just an observation, no offence intended. :mrgreen:

 

[mtt.tr]

For work a have 3 records 1 stanley and a norris all work fantastically.

Jusst for £400 i would expect somthing that is pleasing to the eye the only tools i think still look excellent and work just as well as they ever did are saws

I wouldnt buy lie neilson or veritas because off cost and i find older tools especially chisels are better.

 

[Alf]

There was a post t'other day about someone (forget who) saying that they thought the O1 chisels from LN were not so well finished as the earlier A2 variants - Rob

That would be me. Can't comment on the planes 'cos I haven't seen any of newer manufacture, but I do think the trend towards more black paint and less bronze in the later introductions to the line is a shame. If you're going to spend top dollar, it's nice to have a bit of bling to show for it (she said, oh-so shallowly)

Hmm... I've been drawn into a similar argument on this forum before and I'm not going there again!!! :wink:

And then did... :wink: :lol:

 

[Scouse]

And then did... :wink: :lol:

Point taken, but I'm a bloke, we never learn! :roll: :lol:

 

[yetloh]

As I said, just an observation, no offence intended. :mrgreen:

And none taken. All the premium planes work well and the differences in personal preference are what keeps these makers in business. Long may that continue, as someone said in an earlier thread, this is a golden age in terms of choice of high quality tools, especially compared with the 60s and 70s when all you could get were the rubbish Stanleys and Records of the time.

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

That would be me.

Apologies Al, it's an age thing - Rob

 

[Alf]

No worries, Rob. Age is starting to take its toll here too. I keep, um... you know, what's that thing when you can't... er... What was I saying? :-k

I wouldnt buy lie neilson or veritas because off cost and i find older tools especially chisels are better.

Sort of lost this in the crowd earlier - this always prompts one question in me, and one only. Viz: Have you tried one?